Hillary Clinton ranks as greatest first lady

Hillary Clinton ranks as greatest first lady in American history.

Okay, let me go ahead and state the obvious, the delay by the Siena survey and other rankings to make such an open declaration only reveals how pompous this process sometimes is.  History will declare Hillary Clinton as the greatest first lady ever.  No one else, including the historians’ favorite, Eleanor Roosevelt, even comes close.

Now, none of this has anything to do with politics.  Nor is this about popularity.  If it were the latter, Laura Bush would steal the show, at least for now.  In January, 2005 Laura Bush garnered the highest approval rating of any first lady since such surveys were taken.  But history makes judgments on what people do, not what they are or how they are liked.  Whether or not you like the politics or personality of Hillary Clinton matters little. The fact is that no other First Lady ever served in the cabinet, let alone in such a pivotal and policy making role as Secretary of State.   And while Eleanor was U.N. Ambassador and had her own radio show on ABC, neither she nor any of the others, were ever elected to the Senate, or the House, or anything else other than PTA president, for that matter.  And no other First Lady ever came this close to the presidency itself.

Consider Hillary’s spectacular presidential run.  In the recent marathon contest with Barack Obama she carried six of the top seven richest electoral states in the nation, California, New York, Texas, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida and Michigan.  The only major state she lost was Illinois, Obama’s home.  Considering the modern primary system, especially in the Democrat Party with its super delegates, the Clinton-Obama contest was as close as it gets.

Indeed, in 1993, the Siena Research Institution polled 102 colleges and universities.  They asked for a ranking of the first ladies and found Eleanor Roosevelt number one and Hillary Clinton second.  When Siena produced their own list they inexplicably ignored their poll and placed Clinton as number five.  In December, 2008, after her presidential run they moved her up to fourth, behind Eleanor Roosevelt, Abigail Adams and, tsk, tsk, Jacqueline Kennedy.

I chuckle about Mrs. Kennedy, because she was indeed a great First Lady, who redecorated the White House, but to rank her above Sarah Childress Polk, who practically put her man in office, or Edith Bolling Wilson, who arguably WAS the president for a period of time, or Rosalynn Carter who sat in on cabinet meetings, shows that historians, like common folk, can be just ordinary star struck fans.

Now, the Siena Research Institution is a growing force among historians and it has had some creative organizers behind it, with a desire to make history fun and interesting.  So I am all for them.  And they will argue that we must wait to rank Hillary number one until she is finished.  But they rank other living first ladies as they live out their lives.  And they are ranking Hillary even now, although, number four.

Here is my own subjective list.  I have added Sarah Childress Polk, who was the “Hillary” of her era but is largely ignored by historians who are apparently unaware of her spectacular role in the rise of her husband’s career.  “Daughter,” President Andrew Jackson once said to the young, ambitious Sarah, “I will get you into the White House if it’s the last thing I do.”  Jackson, who hailed from the same Tennessee homeland, helped promote her marriage to her childhood friend, the reluctant public servant, James K. Polk. Sarah lit a fire under the man that took him all the way.

Now Eleanor Roosevelt is surely near the top of anyone’s list.  But to give you an idea of how complicated her role was and just how tenuous her power could be, there is a scene in my book, All the Presidents’ Children, where Eleanor is begging her daughter, Anna, for a spot on the President’s upcoming trip to Yalta where he will meet with Churchill and Stalin.  No can do, says Anna to her own mother, taking orders from her father.  Anna was a powerful White House super aide in the President’s last year.

And historians who neglect the role of Edith Bolling Wilson, who attended her presidential husband after his stroke, lack an understanding of how powerful the role of a doorkeeper can be.  We know her claim that she did not make “a single decision,” other than what he would see and why, that admission in itself should rank her among the most powerful and important first ladies in history.  It was a power that Hillary Clinton, Eleanor Roosevelt and Rosalynn Carter never had.

Finally, I travailed over where to place Jacqueline Kennedy and Nancy Reagan.  Kennedy was our modern first lady, a transition to a new age.  In many ways she “owned” the White House and still does.  She was the first to make a systematic study of children of the presidents.  There is so much to commend her performance.  But Nancy Reagan, in taking on the most critical issue of her time, drugs, and in playing an influential role in the staffing of the White House, and in her close relationship with her husband, influencing policy and doing all of this for eight years, she barely squeezed Jacqueline, the trend setting, first lady curator and historian, out of my top ten.

Doug Wead’s ranking of the top ten First Ladies in American history

1. Hillary Rodham Clinton

2. Eleanor Roosevelt

3. Abigail Adams

4. Edith Bolling Wilson

5. Rosalynn Carter

6. Dolley Madison

7. Sarah Childress Polk

8. Barbara Bush

9. Betty Ford

10. Nancy Reagan

Finally, it is obviously way too early to compare Michelle Obama to other first ladies but as the first African America to rule from the East Wing she is surely headed for the history books.  Here are some interesting, related  links…

The Clintons as parents.

Michelle Obama as mom.

Presidents’ daughters.

50 Responses to Hillary Clinton ranks as greatest first lady

  1. David Black says:

    Wow, Doug, give you a list like that and you gush like a star struck adolescent.

    These people are NOT special. They achieved because of being lucky to be married to the right guy.

    Jackie Kennedy, for example, a pampered debutante and clothes horse who foolishly turned a blind eye to her husband’s philandering.

    That, in itself, disqualifies any achievement of hers.

    Redecorated the White House? Please, you’re embarrassing yourself.

    Eleanor Roosevelt was a fraud as well, plus being a known anti-Semite.

    Just because your heart bleeds doesn’t make you great.

    Greatness is measured by what you do in your private life, not by your public deeds.

  2. tex2 says:

    If Hillary had thrown Bill’s clothes and personal effects out the window and changed the locks on the White House after his “blue dress” incident, she would get my vote.

    She ruined (thankfully) health care reform early in Bill’s first term, so she would get my vote for that failure.

    Otherwise, all of her “success” after Bill stopped having “pizza parties” in the White House, such as getting elected Senator, being the Secretary of State, etc., only lowers my opinion of those offices and don’t count towards her achievements as first lady, only as a person who went on to other things after being first lady. That’s like saying Michael Jordan was the best child ever, because he went on to become one of, if not the best, basketball players, ever.

  3. aarondm says:

    She seems to be one of the most influential women of our day, and her involvement in the world stage has been much larger than as a first lady.

    I certainly can not think of a first lady who has had as much impact on the world around us.. and who is as controversial as Hillary Clinton. I think your article is dead on. Nice on Doug!

  4. historioso5 says:

    I recall being affronted at her temerity in wanting to do something truly important with her role as First Lady. That was before I learned that she was smart, ambitious and extremely well-educated. That only goes to show my personal sexism at the time. She broke the glass ceiling there and opened up all new vistas for educated first ladies to follow. No matter what one feels about her, she needs to be recognized for that enormous breakthrough.

  5. chumpzilla says:

    Wouldn’t she top the list as one of the most power hungry and corrupt first ladies as well?
    Or is that part of the what sets the benchmark?

  6. tex2 says:

    aarondm,

    Hitler was influential too, but that didn’t make him a “greatest” leader.

    historioso5,

    During her time as a first lady, she failed (thankfully) to reform health care in the manner she supported and failed to throw Bill out of the White House for his adultery, how can you say she was a great first lady? Didn’t you read my basketball analogy?

  7. poreagus says:

    Where is Michelle Obama on this list??? Sureley with ~100 days in office her efforts must be evident. How does she not make your list?? She is he first black first lady, that deserves atleast something. Sure she says America is a mean country and says shes not proud of her country. But come on, shes the first person with that skin color to make it. Im sure that makes up for her American hating dialogue.

  8. tex2 says:

    Plus she wears $540 tennis shoes at a food bank:

    “http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/04/earlyshow/leisure/celebspot/main4989941.shtml”

    Doesn’t that count for something?

  9. gradysdad says:

    Doug, great article.

    Hillary Clinton was an amazing first lady. Not only did she make the supreme effort 15 years ago to deal with our health care crisis (we now know she was right), she also took the lead in areas such as the problems with our foster care system and against violence against women.

    Now as our Secretary of State she is demonstrating again what a brilliant and talent person she really is.

  10. Bill McGonigle says:

    Dolley Madison must get some extra credit, having fulfilled the job for two presidents. The controversy over the painting notwithstanding, I’m unlikely to enjoy a cone of Hillary Clinton Ice Cream (oh, boy, on reflection there are too many jokes in that one)!

    P.S. Some of your readers still appreciate subtle humor.

  11. David Black says:

    “Sureley (sic) with ~100 days in office her efforts must be evident.”

    Really? Where?

    I guess you believe gracing the covers of dozens of magazines should elevate a first lady to “greatness.”

    Something truly great? How about raising the perfect family free of scandal and embarrassment?

    I predict Obama’s kids will be caught smoking weed by 16.

  12. teynnensweig says:

    “Eleanor Roosevelt was a fraud as well, plus being a known anti-Semite.”

    Another one of your self-haters?🙂

  13. tex2 says:

    gradysdad,

    You’re right that health care needs to be fixed, but not the way Hillary or Barry O. want to do it.

    What are her accomplishments with regard to foster care system and against violence against women? I know several people who recently went overseas to adopt because it’s so hard and takes so much time here, and the carcasses her husband left behind (Troopergate, Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, Juanita Broaddrick, Gennifer Flowers, Elizabeth Ward Gracen, Sally Perdue and Dolly Kyle Browning, and those are only the names we know!).

    David B.,

    I think that post was sarcasm, ever heard of that?

    teynnensweig,

    Do you have a reference for Eleanor being a known anti-Semite? I thought perhaps she was an anti-Dentite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythrdCsOFJU

  14. teynnensweig says:

    tex2:

    That was a quote from DBlack’s post further up, so please inquire of him for references. There are none on wikipedia.
    I was commenting that statement.

  15. David Black says:

    Speaking of frauds, look who’s back … Murray Teynnensweig, the person too cowardly to post to my blog under his own name

    http://books.google.com/books?id=5p9GIzyk0XgC&pg=PA281&lpg=PA281&dq=%22eleanor+roosevelt%22+%2B+anti-semite&source=bl&ots=ejsHrk1YHl&sig=62lsi5tVZztE-PxFPwYLS37cJjk&hl=en&ei=v3UFSreVC9eJtgeY49WZBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA281,M1

    Page 281 details ER’s anti-Semitic attitudes.

    Once a Jew hater, always a Jew hater. A person doesn’t change their stripes. her contacts with Jews were for political expediency only and to further her own liberal social agenda. Note that she didn’t associate with conservative Jews.

  16. David Black says:

    There’s no indication in poreagus’s post that he/she is being sarcastic. I take what people write at face value unless otherwise indicated.

  17. tex2 says:

    DB,

    If anything, what I gathered from that book is ER was a STRONG supporter of Jews. You tried to use a couple of parroted statements she made as a younger person and ignored the rest of it, which was significant. You appear to be a very angry man who can’t see the forest for the trees. The biggest fault I could find was ER’s liberalism, as illustrated by her contempt of JFK. Although I am no fan of JFK, she felt he was too conservative, according to the same book.

    Regarding the poreagus comment, we’ll have allow them clarify, but I read sarcasm, and lots of it. Dripping. Perhaps that’s part of your problem, you’re angry and unable to read sarcasm. If you have to point out sarcasm, it defeats the purpose of it in the first place.

  18. David Black says:

    “If anything, what I gathered from that book is ER was a STRONG supporter of Jews.”

    Later in life when it was politically expedient or “politically correct” (for the 1930s/40s) to do so, as I’ve already stated.

    Sorry, I can’t respect people who only started to fret over Jews because of the Holocaust. It was akin to bandwagon jumping or a johnny-come-lately calculation.

    That American upper crust disdain for Jews that was ingrained in people like ER still exists today.

    It’s funny that you would point fingers at someone for being angry. Your entire reason for being on the internet is to complain about your misfortune with a fraudulent business system.

  19. David Black says:

    “If you have to point out sarcasm, it defeats the purpose of it in the first place.”

    The originator should also be skilled at conveying the idea and leaving no doubts. I have no idea if poreagus is or is not truly a MO fan.

  20. David Black says:

    Saturday, February 23, 2008
    Self-hating Jews Against Israel: A Tragedy

    I recently deduced that an obnoxious poster named “murray” who has been leaving responses to my various topics is actually a person named Murray Teynnensweig, an apparent self-hating Jew who also posts to Doug Wead’s blog, a hang-out for the Paulist freak fringe.

    Before I figured out that “murray” and “teynennsweig” were the same person, I thought he was a redneck cracker who hated Jews. Now that I know who he is, I now label him a self-hating Jew who doesn’t fully support the Jewish homeland of Israel.

    That’s right, I like to label people and things. I’m not an egalitarian who places all people, beliefs, races, ethnicities, philosophies, etc., on the same moral plane. If you want to call me a Zionist, I’m fine with it.

    In a recent post entry, Teynennsweig expressed admiration for Mordecai Vannu, a traitor to the State of Israel. He would prefer that Israel NOT arm itself with a maximum nuclear deterrent, especially since we know that smelly Islamo-fascist midget that runs Iran is furthering his own nuke program.

    Murray Teynennsweig thinks that a military soldier who risks his/her life in the arena of battle is not a hero. He also doesn’t think John McCain was a hero for surviving five years in enemy captivity. How bizarre.

    One can only conclude that Murray Teynennsweig is a hand-wringing anti-Zionist Jew with LOSERtarian leanings who believes that Israel’s problems are not caused from without. It’s clear that Murray Teynennsweig indulges a leftist’s overworked guilt complex (like so many leftist Jews, unfortunately) and feels sorry for those Pallys who won’t leave the West Bank or Gaza and would rather instead remain and support terrorist treachery.

    People like Murray, and Israel is full of them, foolishly believe that if Israel plays nice with Islamo-fascists and withdraws to pre-1967 borders, they will leave Israel alone. Everyone knows what a joke the Oslo Accords were, so to trust any Islamo-fascist is signing one’s own death warrant.

    A true Jew is a warrior, not a cowardly appeaser. Pallys already have their own state. It’s called Jordan. If they can’t exist under Israeli law, then they should leave. Israel fought for the land they possess and deserve it.

    Murray Teynennsweig would have been one of those Jews reciting “don’t make waves” as he dutifully loaded himself into the boxcar destined for Buchenwald or Dachau.

    This is exactly the mentality of Jews who don’t support the Zionist cause for protecting the Jewish homeland of Israel at all cost.

    post script: Some of Murray Teynennsweig’s reponses to this blog were deleted because they reached an unacceptable level of self-hatred and outward hatred for his own people.

    Murray Teynennsweig has a real problem with the declaration “I am a Jew first and an American second.” He doesn’t grasp that being Jewish is a blood connection going back thousands of years. Citizenship in a country just over 200 years old is supposed to trump that? I don’t think so. Murray also has a real problem with someone who isn’t offering him the consideration for his views he thinks he deserves.

    He grossly misunderstands why I blog, apparently. It’s not to engage in endless parrying over matters with posters, that’s for certain.

    Posted by David Black at 12:28 PM

    Labels: Israel, Jews, Palestinians, Zionism

  21. tex2 says:

    Jews don’t have a monopoly on fraudulent businesses.

    It’s the human condition to be more concerned about yourself than others, you are a prime example of that.

    Most people probably weren’t even paying attention to what Hitler was doing in the 1930’s, they were more concerned about finding a job and finding something to eat.

    I found the originator’s sarcasm quite clear.

    You flip the switch from self made man to victim with a flip of a switch.

    Regarding the “blood connection”, I find that of little value, and the “connection” has been tainted many times over the centuries with “outside” blood.

  22. David Black says:

    Try sticking to the topic, like how frauds like ER with access via her husband to the best in military intel who knew full well what was going on in Europe as far back in the 1930s.

    “Regarding the “blood connection”, I find that of little value,”

    What the hell would you know about it? Unless you are a Jew, your opinion is actually what’s of little value.

    Stick to what you know, like making an entire career on the internet as a clown bitching about about a business system for morons who voluntarily fork over their money to other morons who don’t do any work.

  23. David Black says:

    “I found the originator’s sarcasm quite clear.”

    Sorry, I’m not on the same pedestrian middle class wavelength as the rest of you. In fact, I’ve never known anyone but middle class schlubs pushing that Amway crap.

  24. tex2 says:

    Do you have proof what intel existed in the 1930’s, or whether ER had access to it? What did you expect the U.S. to do about it, even if they had the information, or whether ER had an official position in the government? Last I checked, her husband was the president, not her.

    I know plenty, including the fact the “Jews” have intermarried with “outsiders” so much there are scores of nationalities with “cleaner” blood lines, as if that mattered, except for excessive inbreeding causing physical/mental problems. How far back does YOUR family go back with inbreeding?

    As far as your opinion of my opinion not mattering because I’m not “Jewish”, I already knew your “take” on that.

    But thanks for recognizing my online “career” to clean up a business tool scam. However, I’m doing FAR more than mere “bitching”, I assure you.

    If you were at or above the “middle class schlub” level, you would have recognized sarcasm. That leaves one category, care to guess?

  25. David Black says:

    Impossible for my family to have suffered from the genetic anomalies associated with inbreeding, since we owned a multimillion dollar garment business in New York for forty years.

  26. tex2 says:

    Owned? Past tense?

  27. David Black says:

    That’s correct. When my father and my uncles reached retirement age they sold the business and moved to Florida. When they passed on we inherited their estates. Our job now is to manage those estates.

  28. David Black says:

    By the way, that is the way you start and run a business. We weren’t part of a network where we kicked up profits or skimmed profits from underlings in that network. That’s a pyramid. That’s MLM.

  29. tex2 says:

    In other words, you weren’t capable of continuing to run the business? Interesting.

    There are many methods of starting and running a business, there are advantages and disadvantages of each. To pretend your method is superior to every other method in every single case is ridiculous.

  30. David Black says:

    ” To pretend your method is superior to every other method in every single case is ridiculous.”

    It IS superior, because you live and die by your own wits, not as a part of some stupid collective of nitwits and creeps stealing your profits.

  31. tex2 says:

    I see you ignored the first paragraph….

  32. David Black says:

    Right, because I’m not going to divulge any other details to a stranger who is only trolling for material to supply his ongoing internet clown act.

    And the funny thing is, Wead just uses you to bring traffic to his blog.

    But you MLM clowns are accustomed to being used, aren’t you?

  33. tex2 says:

    So I’ll assume my original thought was correct, your excessive inbreeding caused you to be unable to run a business like daddy did. Typical snot nosed son, clinging to the accomplishments of daddy as if it was you who were responsible for the business success.

    Wead appears to have me and you as “traffic,” woop-tee-doo. If I’m a clown, we’re in a teeny tiny 3 ring circus!

    Even if there are more people coming, my goal is to educate them regarding the tool scam: “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/9-steps-of-truth.html”, so mission accomplished!

  34. tex2 says:

    I also find it interesting you like to try to dig up and challenge the background of others, but aren’t very interested in being forward with your own information.

  35. David Black says:

    I’ll challenge the improbable, like the idea that a low rent comic from New Orleans would start and write for a blog on behalf of an actual disgruntled Amway huckster from Texas. It’s still very funny that the moment I mentioned it on this blog my comments suddenly were being moderated when they never were before.

    Sorry, it just smacks of internet performance art. I don’t care how many “witnesses” are invented to back your claims.

    Wead likes to feature these freakish American subcultures. First it’s the Paulnuts, then it’s the low rent Amway hucksters and their overpriced crap.

  36. David Black says:

    Wead wants to generate traffic to his blog so he finds an internet performance artist to do his work for him. That’s where you fit in.

  37. tex2 says:

    Actually, Dave is from Mobile, Alabama. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a personal put-down, shall we?

    Are all your comments still being moderated? I found if I included a link, the comment is moderated. However, if I place parentheses around the link, it isn’t moderated.

    I think you should consider the possibility others aren’t nearly as interested in “performing” for you as you think, and instead are merely attempting to tell the truth. You are attempting to elevate yourself as important enough to create a complex charade of multiple characters for your benefit. You’re not. Get over it.

    I find numerous products to have competitive prices, and other do not. The recent 2 rounds of price cuts, which have averaged 15% IBO cost, help even more. Attempting to call someone “low rent” while demonstrating an inability to continue daddy’s business says a lot more about you than me.

    Wead has me and you, and a handful of others. If traffic generation is his goal, he’s failing miserably. Just like you’re failing with your attempted put-downs.

  38. David Black says:

    I believe the following posts describe you and your whole M.O. perfectly.

    ******************************************************************
    Re: Anyone Seen sixminutemillionaire.com?
    by ibofightback on Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:53 am

    Tex is an IBO who has an obsession with, as he puts it, “the tool scam” and the “lying cowardly kingpins”. He believes that virtually all Diamonds and above make by far the majority of their incomes from tool profit rather than Amway, and that the “excessive” profit margin on tools makes the Amway business unprofitable for all but platinums and above.

    (did I get that right Tex?)

    He has been banned from both amway critics and amway supporters sites alike because it doesn’t matter what the conversation is about, he will intercede and start whining about “the tool scam”. Since he’s not allowed on any of the regular sites, he takes his “crusade” to whereever he can, including letters to editors of any papers that publish anything about Amway, virtually any website that talks about Amway, and of course government authorities like the FTC and BERR in the UK.

    My opinion as a trained (but not practicing) psychologist is that he has a personality disorder.
    __
    Lost isn’t when you don’t know where you are – it’s when you don’t know how to get back to where you know where you are

    ibofightback

    Posts: 1968
    Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:52 pm
    Location: Cyberspace
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    Re: Anyone Seen sixminutemillionaire.com?
    by TB 2 IBO on Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:59 am

    ibofightback wrote:
    My opinion as a trained (but not practicing) psychologist is that he has a personality disorder.

    Or a relatively pointless life, wrapped up in only himself….oh wait..guess that is a personality disorder…my bad.
    It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. –Roosevelt

    TB 2 IBO

    Posts: 476
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    Re: Anyone Seen sixminutemillionaire.com?
    by Ros on Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:28 pm

    BigBucks wrote:
    As much as I hate sounding like the new guy… who is Tex? Sounds like he’s got quite the reputation here. But I’m completely in the dark and don’t know anything about anybody (that makes me sound like I’m a mobster on trial, “I don’t know nobody, I didn’t talk to nobody, I didn’t do ’nuffin.”)

    BigBucks,

    There are some questions better left unanswered.

    Some say Tex doesn’t exist, that he’s a myth, a made up character to cause panic and chaos.

    His early years are relatively unknown, though he (or someone masquerading as him) claims to have been an IBO for several years.

    After some time, he says he uncovered a great plot to defraud IBOs of millions of dollars, which he calls “the tool scam” perpetrated by who he calls the “lying cowardly kingpins”.

    The plot thickens, the exaggerations become even more outlandish, but as is often the case, fiction is more fascinating then reality.

    At every turn, his story takes a new twist, so called eye-witnesses suddenly disappear, secret documents are mysteriously found, only to be proved later they are forged or doctored up.

    Being forced to go underground, he took on a new identity in an attempt to keep his great conspiracy alive.

    Is he real, or just a figment of someone’s vivid imagination? We may never know the truth.

    He or someone claiming to be him, was sighted last year in Prague at a blogging event hosted by Amway/Quixtar. IBOFB and Bridgett attended the event, they met him – or did they?

    Some even say Chuck Norris has met him.

    On this and many other blogs, he has tried numerous times to impersonate other IBOs, innocently pretending to want to help, but all the while, he’s scheming, trying to win over new converts to his cause. But sooner or later he gives himself away and is caught. Where upon he takes up a new identity, starting the cycle all over again.

    I can tell you this, he will stop at nothing to continue his conspiracy theory as well as hide his real motives.

    Remember, there are reasons why his name is seldom mentioned in public, but most often just whispered in dark shadowy places.

    The greatest trick Tex ever pulled was trying to convince the world that he didn’t exist.

    While this story of Tex may be totally fabricated (or is it?), it does bear a striking similarity to the story of “Keyser Söze” aka Roger “Verbal” Kint (played by Kevin Spacey), in the movie “The Usual Suspects”.

    Coincidence? Could be. You decide.
    Last edited by Ros on Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

    Ros

    Posts: 199
    Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:20 am
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  39. David Black says:

    By the way, Tex, you are a liar, because you told this writer at uslaw.com this:

    “Failure to vanquish the tool kingpins will force Tex to call for Amway to be shut down as a pyramid scheme and thereby put an end to the pernicious business cult.”

    You told me an MLM is NOT a pyramid scheme.

  40. tex2 says:

    Let’s see…. today ibofb again stated, on his own blog, if he had a gun a few years ago, he would have blown his own brains to smitherines. Ros is notoriously “positive” to the point of TOTALLY ignoring facts, and causing others to catch diabetes by the mere reading of his posts. Good references.

    By the way, DB, you are clueless. You fail to understand there are 2 businesses in action; the legitimate Amway MLM business and the tool scam.

  41. David Black says:

    I guess it takes some kooks to spot a kook like you.

    Speaking of clueless, it boils down the the fact that some of Amway’s people are making their money their way and some of you haven’t figured out how to imitate their methods. Since you can’t make their level of money, you whine like babies.

    You deserve whatever fate befalls you. You deserve to stay miserable and unprosperous.

    When will you learn that this world is built upon the principle that the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer?

    That’s life, accept it.

  42. tex2 says:

    You “spotted” me too, kook! I guess it takes someone whose daddy made money, and now the sniveling son who inherited the money but didn’t make the money, gets to point fingers without having a clue what he’s talking about, in his spare time.

    I don’t want to “imitate” ripping off others. My name isn’t Bernie Madoff, my title isn’t LCK.

    You deserve whatever God plans for your eternity. I’m neither miserable or unprosperous.

    Right now the rich are getting poorer and the poor are getting richer, although Barry O. will probably be a one-termer and we’ll get back to reality. But I’m not talking about generalities, I’m talking specifics. Ask Bernie Madoff if he’s getting richer, as he rots in prison.

  43. David Black says:

    ” I guess it takes someone whose daddy made money, and now the sniveling son who inherited the money”

    Spoken like a true have-not with a severe case of class envy. You aren’t accomplished or monied, that statement proves it. Truly monied people hold whining have-nots like you in contempt and have no regard for those who can’t figure out how to play the game. Truly monied and accomplished people have disdain for anyone who isn’t playing on their level or by their playbook.

    Amway’s elite played a game you couldn’t fathom, so you got burned. Instead of learning how to play their game, you become a whining fool because you can’t reconcile to the fact that you aren’t smart enough to play in the elite game.

    There, you’ve been summarized perfectly.

    People like Bernie Madoff always land on their feet. I’m sure he’s got more dough stashed away in hidden accounts that they’ll never find. His entire family will always be well taken care of. They won’t be collecting food stamps, that’s for damn sure.

    I could care less about what Bernie Madoff did or does. His operations didn’t cross paths with mine, so I could care less how many people he cheated.

    When will you learn that those who play by the rules in business always finish last?

  44. tex2 says:

    Spoken like a true have-done-nothing-but-brags-anyway. I’m plenty accomplished and “monied”, and your statement proves you’re neither. Tell your “contempt” story to Bernie, it doesn’t get any regard from me. You wouldn’t know much about being “truly monied and accomplished”, you just suckle off the teat your daddy made. I’m sure Bernie Madoff had plenty of distain for a lot of people, until he got caught.

    Amway’s elite is playing a game they already lost in the UK, and hopefully similar events will soon unfold here. I don’t want to play the LCK game, or the Bernie Madoff game.

    There, I’ve summarized my position perfectly.

    We’ll see about Bernie’s family, there are a LOT of people at the Federal Enforcement level digging into his financial affairs. They may not be collecting food stamps, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I saw one of them wearing a blue vest welcoming folks into Walmart, either.

    I know how much you don’t care about others, that has been well established.

    When will you learn there are plenty of people who play by the rules in business and do just fine, especially compared to Bernie Madoff and others who have been caught?

  45. David Black says:

    Again, truly accomplished and wealthy do not have contempt for others who are equally accomplished and wealthy.

    You were stupid enough to get burned and now you turn on the system. That makes a lot of sense. No one forced you to get involved with Amway. They can do what they damn well please.

    ” I don’t want to play the LCK game”

    You don’t want to play to win, either. You don’t have the power to change the rules. You either adapt or perish.

  46. tex2 says:

    Again, truly accomplished and wealthy do not have contempt for others, whether they are equally accomplished and wealthy or not.

    You were stupid enough to ignore the facts, especially the UK ruling last year. That makes a lot of sense. No one forced you to get involved in this Amway discussion. They can’t do as they damn well please.

    I always play to win, and have often won. However, I play within the rules. I have, on several occasions, changed the “rules.” Amway will either adapt or perish.

  47. David Black says:

    My god, this is like arguing with a child, if all they do is parrot your every word in the form of a response.

    No wonder posters at every blog you post to think you’re a moron.

    “They can’t do as they damn well please.”

    Of course they can, you’re just too ignorant to understand that. They have power, you don’t. It’s that simple.

    If you represent the intelligence level of the typical Amway huckster, I’m thankful I or no one I know buys that overpriced crap.

  48. tex2 says:

    My God, this is like arguing with a child, if all they do is parrot your every word in the form of a response.

    No wonder posters at every blog you post to think you’re a moron.

    “They can’t do as they damn well please.”

    Of course they can’t, you’re just too ignorant to understand that. They have blood on their hands, I don’t. It’s that simple. You STILL haven’t read the UK court case, have you?

    If you represent the intelligence level of the typical anti-Amway huckster, I’m thankful I or no one I know buys into your crap.

  49. […] Hillary Clinton is the Greatest First Lady in American history declares Doug Wead, a conservative historian and former advisor to two Republican presidents. The Siena Research Institute ranks her number five. […]

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