How the Amway tools became a big business

If you are new to this series, start at the beginning, Doug Wead Amway Adventure or otherwise it will not make sense. And the follow each successive post. As many of you know, I am retired from Amway now, but my experience was a fond one and I am trying to share what I learned along the way.

And right now, that means responding to one of the newer and more prolific commentators on this blog by the name of “Tex.” This will probably be an exercise in futility, we experience and see things differently, but I am determined to learn from him and share a little of my own perspective too.

In the words of Tex: I and others have mentioned on numerous occasions the tool scam started out as being a help to the IBOs and later turned into THE primary source of income for the upline, and more significantly, results in most IBOs below Platinum to operate at a net loss. Does this sound like a moral and ethical business model to you, Doug?

They are operating at a loss at the pre-Platinum levels because they have decided that they cannot sell the product at retail, or they don’t want to. This is the problem that Eric Scheibeler raises, saying that the likely incomes at these entry levels are wrong. And it is a good point. But Amway doesn’t force people to sign up and it is certainly not the fault of the tool business.

For example, I was told to follow the corporate model in order to get my required ten customers but in the process I soon found it was pretty hard selling the products. Sure, it was possible, I could sell to relatives or friends who would help me out, but I could make more money spending my time doing something else. My sponsor, who was Dexter Yager, advised me to concentrate on sponsoring, to get to a bigger level where the income would be better, and I soon found that the only way to get that going was tapes. (Nowadays CD’s.) I indeed spent more than I was making but it was a calculated investment. The company didn’t make me and neither did Dex.

BTW, the purchase of tapes did not automatically result in growth. I had to use them and learn from them. It sounds absurd to say “learn” from them because they were not especially profound but then that is part of building a big network, it is going to appeal to the “average” person. And if it doesn’t work for the average person it will soon fail to work for the exceptional person. It is by its nature pedestrian.

Also, you don’t address whether ANY IBO’s below were making a net profit with all of these tapes, books, functions, etc. THAT is my main point. It involves tool PRICES and system PRACTICES (unnecessary long distance travel in particular).

Hmm, I’ll get to that last point in a future post. It is a good topic in itself.

At first no one made money off of the tapes, except indirectly because it helped build their groups, and more importantly perhaps, resulted in better retention. And even into the 1970’s, making tapes for your group was a drudgery which was passed off to a new diamond as soon as possible. Some ran it like a business and made a profit, but some lost money keeping it going only because it grew their group.

Then, a bright, young man, who will remain nameless, changed everything. He sat across from Dexter Yager and Bill Britt in the coffee shop of the Fontainebleau Hotel and told Yager that for a $50,000 investment he could buy the latest machinery and set up his own tape duplicating company. Dexter turned him down. Britt said, “I’ll do it.” And so the modern networking tape business was born.

According to this widely told story, Britt’s new company prospered and eventually, even Dex was buying tapes from Britt. Nobody could beat his prices. The rumor was that for awhile, anyway, Amway itself was buying their tapes from him.

It was beautiful. Large tape orders from rock stars or political campaigns were sporadic. A company could make a fortune off of them but how could they afford all of that expensive machinery that had to sit idle between elections and runaway musical hits? Well, Britt, with the steady demand from networkers, could keep them humming. And he got rich.

Soon, everybody wanted their share. Dex decided that since Britt was in his downline, he should be getting a proper share, after all, he was selling to “his” group. And so a pricing system developed and rules emerged and it all continues to evolve to this day. And it is a hotly debated subject with cries of “unfair, I should be getting a bigger cut.”

Now, here is the rub. This is what you must keep in mind as we pursue this. The tapes worked. That is, they helped recruit, and motivate and develop a culture that retained distributors, even those whom you say were not making money, could grow their group and some did exactly that. Indeed, I did that and eventually made money.

Second, and this is an important point, the “new” tape business that emerged did not take “new” money away from the distributors. The prices of the tapes were the same. All along they had been giving their money to distant, unknown manufacturers. Were those manufacturers raping the people? There were certainly no complaints about them for as long as the profit was going to a stranger far away, no one cared. But in fact, this new arrangement was only bringing the production in-house. The cost to the newest IBO was the same.

Now, among the problems this would raise would be the issue of a conflict of interest. And this seems to be at the heart of your angst. As long as they promoted tapes that were manufactured elsewhere, no one was upset. But when they started promoting tapes that they, themselves, profited from, people cried foul.

Was it foul? You can say, yes, this poor person would never have succeeded in networking so their investment was only lining the pockets of the manufacturers, who were now their own uplines. Or perhaps it was the wrong time to build, the marketplace was hostile. But then, who would have predicted the success or timing of Dexter Yager? He lived in a tenement and shared a toilet with people on the same floor. Or Hal and Susan Gooch, who had to sell blood at hospitals to get money to eat? Should the upline decide who should be allowed to buy tapes and who was only wasting their money? Sometimes, they actually tried to do this, out of kindness, but that wasn’t fair either or even legal.

I know that many groups kept this entire process secret. But my instincts told me that this was foolish. I told everyone, everything, right from the beginning. I never sponsored a person who didn’t know the whole story. Those who made a secret out of it only hurt themselves. At least in my humble opinion.

Next post in this series? Tools or products.

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52 Responses to How the Amway tools became a big business

  1. […] If you want to follow this ongoing series from the beginning start at Doug Wead Amway adventure and follow the posts.  Continue from this one to How the Amway tools became a big business? […]

  2. weachu says:

    Doug: I am enjoying your story. It is amazing to me how far the business has come even over the 15 years or so that I have been involved. Without the tool I would have never been able to build my business and further more neither my wife or I would have advanced in our professions as far as we have. Personally I find the new standards set forth by the corporation to be the key to ending the ongoing issues with the business end of what we do. The new emphasis on customer volume albet a little intimidating is refreshing and has increased our profitability. Keep up your good work

  3. tex2 says:

    If you are new to this series, start at the beginning, Doug Wead Amway Adventure or otherwise it will not make sense. And the follow each successive post. As many of you know, I am retired from Amway now, but my experience was a fond one and I am trying to share what I learned along the way. —- This means you are no longer an IBO, or you are still an IBO, but inactive?

    And right now, that means responding to one of the newer and more prolific commentators on this blog by the name of “Tex.” This will probably be an exercise in futility, we experience and see things differently, but I am determined to learn from him and share a little of my own perspective too. —- I think it will be an exercise in education. Whether you accept the documented facts is a different question.

    In the words of Tex: I and others have mentioned on numerous occasions the tool scam started out as being a help to the IBOs and later turned into THE primary source of income for the upline, and more significantly, results in most IBOs below Platinum to operate at a net loss. Does this sound like a moral and ethical business model to you, Doug? —- What a great question, if I must say so myself.

    They are operating at a loss at the pre-Platinum levels because they have decided that they cannot sell the product at retail, or they don’t want to. —- You need to define “they.” Is it the upline or the new IBO? Many prospects are told they don’t have to retail, and most people, by nature, don’t want to be a “salesperson.”

    This is the problem that Eric Scheibeler raises, saying that the likely incomes at these entry levels are wrong. —- I don’t understand what you’re getting at, please expand.

    And it is a good point. But Amway doesn’t force people to sign up and it is certainly not the fault of the tool business. —- We need to know what you’re talking about before agreeing or disagreeing whether it is a good point. It is a straw man argument to state Amway doesn’t force people to join, but lack of retail is DEFINITELY the fault of the tool business (or more accurately, the people who profit from the tool systems), as you will see below.

    For example, I was told to follow the corporate model in order to get my required ten customers but in the process I soon found it was pretty hard selling the products. —- This isn’t a corporate model, it is a corporate RULE.

    Sure, it was possible, I could sell to relatives or friends who would help me out, but I could make more money spending my time doing something else. —- BINGO! Customers don’t buy tools, IBO’s do. Why would your upline want you to “waste” your valuable time with selling to customers, which make THEM pennies? The upline would much rather you use your limited time to sponsor new IBO’s, as they make FAR more money when those IBO’s buy the tools.

    My sponsor, who was Dexter Yager, advised me to concentrate on sponsoring, to get to a bigger level where the income would be better, and I soon found that the only way to get that going was tapes. (Nowadays CD’s.) —- I am not against the tool CONTENT, I am against the distorted and false profit model the current prices and practices with tools create. And tapes are only PART of the equation, there are also books (remember the 80% discount you mentioned?), various meetings, voice mail, websites, etc.

    I indeed spent more than I was making but it was a calculated investment. The company didn’t make me and neither did Dex. —- Did you ever try to get the required support, by rule, without using the tools? I did, and went from “best buddy” to TOTALLY ignored after going off standing order tools. People are TAUGHT not to help those not “feeding the beast” the tool scam represents. There is some sense to this approach, as those looking to learn new things are easier to train. However, it is CLEARLY against the Amway written rules.

    BTW, the purchase of tapes did not automatically result in growth. I had to use them and learn from them. It sounds absurd to say “learn” from them because they were not especially profound but then that is part of building a big network, it is going to appeal to the “average” person. And if it doesn’t work for the average person it will soon fail to work for the exceptional person. It is by its nature pedestrian. —- Agree, 100%. I’ve never had an issue with the tool content. Not that I agree with 100% of the content, but realizing I never would, either.

    Also, you don’t address whether ANY IBO’s below were making a net profit with all of these tapes, books, functions, etc. THAT is my main point. It involves tool PRICES and system PRACTICES (unnecessary long distance travel in particular). —- Another excellent point.

    Hmm, I’ll get to that last point in a future post. It is a good topic in itself. —- I agree, and look forward to that post.

    At first no one made money off of the tapes, except indirectly because it helped build their groups, and more importantly perhaps, resulted in better retention. —- I have NO issue with tools helping to build the Amway business volume, or helping with better retention. NONE.

    And even into the 1970’s, making tapes for your group was a drudgery which was passed off to a new diamond as soon as possible. Some ran it like a business and made a profit, but some lost money keeping it going only because it grew their group. —-How was money lost? Wouldn’t they sell them for at least the cost of producing the tapes?

    Then, a bright, young man, who will remain nameless, changed everything. He sat across from Dexter Yager and Bill Britt in the coffee shop of the Fontainebleau Hotel and told Yager that for a $50,000 investment he could buy the latest machinery and set up his own tape duplicating company. Dexter turned him down. Britt said, “I’ll do it.” And so the modern networking tape business was born. —- Would that be you?

    According to this widely told story, Britt’s new company prospered and eventually, even Dex was buying tapes from Britt. Nobody could beat his prices. The rumor was that for awhile, anyway, Amway itself was buying their tapes from him. —- I heard Britt say this (the Yager part) himself on a recent tape.

    It was beautiful. Large tape orders from rock stars or political campaigns were sporadic. A company could make a fortune off of them but how could they afford all of that expensive machinery that had to sit idle between elections and runaway musical hits? Well, Britt, with the steady demand from networkers, could keep them humming. And he got rich. —- No doubt.

    Soon, everybody wanted their share. Dex decided that since Britt was in his downline, he should be getting a proper share, after all, he was selling to “his” group. And so a pricing system developed and rules emerged and it all continues to evolve to this day. —- I think the “rules” in those days were based on favoritism, specifically, how hard the IBO pushed the tool system.

    And it is a hotly debated subject with cries of “unfair, I should be getting a bigger cut.” —- And the probable reason most offshoots of these companies occurred.

    Now, here is the rub. This is what you must keep in mind as we pursue this. The tapes worked. That is, they helped recruit, and motivate and develop a culture that retained distributors, even those whom you say were not making money, could grow their group and some did exactly that. Indeed, I did that and eventually made money. —- No rub at all, the question isn’t whether the tapes (or other parts of the tool system mentioned above) worked, it was whether the tail was wagging the dog, and whether the pre-Platinum IBO’s made a net profit.

    Second, and this is an important point, the “new” tape business that emerged did not take “new” money away from the distributors. The prices of the tapes were the same. All along they had been giving their money to distant, unknown manufacturers. Were those manufacturers raping the people? There were certainly no complaints about them for as long as the profit was going to a stranger far away, no one cared. But in fact, this new arrangement was only bringing the production in-house. The cost to the newest IBO was the same. —- Are you saying the upline went from making zero profit on tapes when others made them, and only made a profit after they started making them internally? The answer is probably no, but even if true, it is a massive change in the tool sales INCENTIVE. This is a HUGE problem.

    Now, among the problems this would raise would be the issue of a conflict of interest. And this seems to be at the heart of your angst. As long as they promoted tapes that were manufactured elsewhere, no one was upset. But when they started promoting tapes that they, themselves, profited from, people cried foul. —- See above comments.

    Was it foul? You can say, yes, this poor person would never have succeeded in networking so their investment was only lining the pockets of the manufacturers, who were now their own uplines. Or perhaps it was the wrong time to build, the marketplace was hostile. But then, who would have predicted the success or timing of Dexter Yager? He lived in a tenement and shared a toilet with people on the same floor. Or Hal and Susan Gooch, who had to sell blood at hospitals to get money to eat? Should the upline decide who should be allowed to buy tapes and who was only wasting their money? Sometimes, they actually tried to do this, out of kindness, but that wasn’t fair either or even legal. —- Spare me the violin music stories. Kindness, that’s a good one. Almost fell out of my chair reading that one.

    I knew that many groups kept this entire process secret. But my instincts told me that this was foolish. I told everyone, everything, right from the beginning. I never sponsored a person who didn’t know the whole story. Those who made a secret out of it only hurt themselves. At least in my humble opinion. —- What exactly did you tell them?

    More later. —- Can’t wait.

  4. tex2 says:

    By the way, I’m not a fan of increasing retail without addressing the tool scam. The net result if this is tried will be a higher percentage of IBO’s being ABLE to buy the tools, INCREASING the tool scam problem.

    In other words, most IBO’s will be able to reach Platinum with less IBO’s, but those below Platinum will still operate at a net loss. In fact, an even higher percentage will operate at a net loss.

    Doug, you talked with Eric, I think it’s time we talk as well: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/talk-to-tex.html

  5. 1formeribo says:

    My take is that when an outside vendor made the tapes, the diamonds probably still made some kind of profit. After buying a tape making machine, the diamonds profit started going through the roof.

    But here’s the interesting part. When did the teaching change to emphasize dedication to the tools? For example, you never miss a function unless you need to attend a funeral – your own?

    The greed for tool profits probably changed the emphasis from actually helping IBO’s to hyper consumption of tools. It is also why KATE took over for Amvox/IBOCS, which at least gave the IBO PV/BV.
    Product loyalty is not important I suppose, if the “negative” product is a profit maker for upline.

  6. tex2 says:

    For a tape sold for, as an example, $6/tape, you could probably buy them for $2/tape, or make them yourself for $1. So you had either $4 in profit, or $5, respectively. This is only a 25% profit increase, if my assumptions are accurate.

    The training probably started changing when the tools were first introduced and worked with higher retention rates, even before a tool profit was being made. It was probably ratcheted even higher when the tool profits started coming in.

    Kate is another good example of tool profit greed, one of many. Let’s not forget the Opens, monthly Seminar/Rallies, Major Functions, and websites.

  7. […] See the rest here: How the Amway tools became a big business […]

  8. 1formeribo says:

    This is actually good information and confirms what I sort of already knew. That the tools systems were created as a way to help IBO’s. But shortly after, the diamonds who profited from the systems figured out the potential income from these systems and the Amway business became secondary. Later, the functions, books, KATE, website and other workshops and events were created, all of which the upline received significant compensation for.

    The problem has worsened and Amway did not stop the abuses when they had a chance to. The problems that arose from system abuse, in my opinion has signifcantly contributed to the bad reputation that Amway now enjoys.

    If people signed up for Amway and sold some things or did nothing and quit, there’s not much to complain about. But you sign up, make an earnest effort and buy into the system for a while, now you are out maybe a few hundred for a few thousand dollars. Now there’s something to complain about, especially if the IBO put forth effort only to find that Amway has too much baggage attached for most people to be able to succeed.

  9. tex2 says:

    Too much baggage, unless you’ve been working on a virtually free system for a while….

  10. michman1 says:

    Doug, the problem isn’t specifically whether the tapes are produced by a third party or by the upline.

    I don’t think McDonald’s franchisees care if McDonalds Corporation is manufactures those napkins with the embossed “M” or if they simply get a kickback from the manufacturer from each one sold to the franchisee.

    It would come down to this. What is THE business? “Does the McDonalds Corp want us to purchase those napkins, cups and ketchup for solely their own benefit? Or for ours? Do they care more about their own profitability? Or ours?”

    The problem in Amway is that the system became THE business. It became more profitable for the Diamonds to promote the purchase of bsms and seminars than it was to promote the purchase of an Amway product! (And the secrecy and denial of tool profits didn’t help either).

    No longer were Amway distributors leaving the business with a garage full of soap. They were leaving the business with a basement full of tapes and CDs!

    The tool leaders could have used the opportunity of mass production and economies of scale to lower tool prices so that rank and file ibos could get more profitable. But they did not.

    What did they do? They put their own profit first.

  11. tex2 says:

    michman1,

    I agree, that’s why the upline has EARNED the title of LCKs (Lying Cowardly “Kingpins”), and the tool scam accurately describes the BSM systems.

    The question then transitions into what to do about it. Have YOU and the other readers complained to the FTC, your Senator/Congressperson, the BBB, your state attorney general, the local and national media, the DSA, Amway, the IBOAI, etc? If you cared about your fellow man getting ripped off, you would.

    Regarding the tools in the basement, I have purchased some of them (about 15,000 tapes and CDs, hundreds of books over a 4 year period) online for pennies on the dollar, although the supply being sold in the past few months has definitely declined. Perhaps not as many IBOs are leaving, because there are fewer available, hence the lack of reporting the U.S./Canadian volume for the first time in 50 years.

  12. weachu says:

    As a part of the UR association and having been under a diamond line down line from Hal and Susan I have finaly found a tool system that is developed for the people in the organization’s benefit rather then the top of the up line

  13. michman1 says:

    weachu,

    The UR Association is headed by John Crowe. Correct?

    How does it differ from the Gooch tool system?

    Are you now in the Crowe organization or are you in the Gooch group using the UR system?

    Thanks,

  14. tex2 says:

    weachu,

    I agree with michman1 (even though he didn’t respond to my question, above), you need to describe WHY UR Association is different. What do the various meetings, books, audios, websites, voice mail systems, etc., cost?

  15. weachu says:

    Yes it is headed up by John Crowe, Rex Renfro,David Deusasult,and Jack Spencer.

    Example Major function tickets under the Gooch line were between 2-3 hundred dollars. UR member costs 95.00.

  16. tex2 says:

    weachu,

    One example does not answer the question. By the way, if the tickets were $2-300, that was much higher than average, and $95 is only slightly below average. However, everyone should know the ticket price is a relatively small part of a major function cost. The right answer for major functions is to combine with other LOS/LOAs, so you can attend one more local. How about the rest of the costs, such as CD’s, books, Opens, monthly seminars, voice mail, web site, etc.?

  17. ibofightback says:

    Just to support something Bridgett said earlier, and to counter Tex’s false claims. I’ve built 3 separate Amway businesses in a number of different countries and every time I was profitable by about the 1000-1500PV mark. This is way way under the “not profitable until platinum” claim of Tex.

    Is it possible to not be profitable until platinum? Of course. That doesn’t mean it’s common.

    Actually, I just remembered a 4th Amway business – my first attempt, with no system. I was profitable immediately! You might think that was good … except I also never got to 6%. Effectively a nice sales job for some extra cash, and that’s fine, but those utilising the systems are usually after something bigger.

  18. tex2 says:

    WRONG. It’s not my claim, it is the claim of several others on several blogs. It is also consistent with my personal experience, as additional travel and meetings with upline was an expectation.

    However, if you want to show your overhead costs, and how these costs relate to what is taught, go for it.

    The “no system” argument is a straw man with me, as I have always supported tool systems, just not tool SCAM systems.

  19. Just to clarify, since I say 300 PV and ibofightback says 1,000-1500 PV, both being part of systems (different ones), why the difference in break-even points?

    1) IBOFB has “international” business, while my business is strictly North America. So his travelling expenses may be higher than mine, and/or the Amway money available in the sales and marketing plan in his countries may be lower than mine.

    and/or

    2) Maybe IBOFB’s figure is based on minimal retailing, and so most of his income was from the Performance Bonus money, rather than retail profit margin.

    and/or

    3) IBOFB is speaking about the past overseas, while I’m talking *now* in The States.

    I say this not to at all to criticize the way IBOFB built and continues to build his business, but only to explain the difference in figures. There’s more than one way to build a profitable Amway business.

    Regarding retailing: Knowing what I know about the rest of the Amway world outside the States and Canada, in the North American market, today, April 24, 2009, it is easier and much more profitable to retail products than ever before.

    We Americans are so spoiled, and sometimes it takes looking at other markets to see just how much is being handled to us on a silver platter from Amway Global (North America Amway).

    Particularly the changes that Amway Global has made in the last 18 months, this business truly has undergone a Transformation.

    When I first saw this opportunity, I was NOT excited about retailing and did as little of it as I possibly could.

    But given all the changes that have occurred, and understanding WHY, *on a big-picture level*, having a strong, solid paying-full-retail customer-base of 10-20 customers is not just important, but vital, I have chosen to learn the skills I need to learn.

    And now I can say it’s really not that hard if, like anything worth doing (ya gotta believe it’s worth doing), you put in some consistent focus and effort.

    I am enjoying this history lesson, Doug. And I am also looking toward to the future!🙂

  20. tex2 says:

    Bridgett,

    You are describing a fantasy world. When you want to talk reality, please let me know.

  21. ibofightback says:

    Bridgett, yes I’m not talking about right now, this is past history, just to dispute Tex’s claims, which are also based on past history.

    Mind you, even right now though, we don’t have all the lovely fast start bonuses you guys have in the US, or products like XS and other edibles that even the new guy can retail easily, or retail websites etc etc etc. Oh … and the bonuses are lower, 9% doesn’t kick in until 1200PV.

  22. tex2 says:

    Bridgett,

    I must apologize for my rather point remark. I apologize profusely (http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html). Can you find it in your heart to ever forgive me?

    ibofb,

    Yes, I must be totally mistaken, as the changes you describe would result in massive profit for every single IBO on the planet. The issues you describe make it obvious the overhead tool costs have been reduced significantly. My bad, would you forgive me as well? (http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html)

  23. tex2 says:

    Bridgett,

    Oops, I noticed a typo. I should have stated “pointed”, above. Sorry if I offended you in any way. (http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html)

  24. tex2 says:

    Bridgett,

    I must apologize for my rather pointed remark. I apologize profusely “(http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html)”. Can you find it in your heart to ever forgive me?

    ibofb,

    Yes, I must be totally mistaken, as the changes you describe would result in massive profit for every single IBO on the planet. The issues you describe make it obvious the overhead tool costs have been reduced significantly. My bad, would you forgive me as well? “(http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html)”

  25. 1formeribo says:

    When someone says profitable at 300 PV or at 1000 PV, are you saying that you profited before factoring in standing order and other variables? I was in the BWW system. I reached the 300 PV level and even sold some goods but standing order alone ate up my PV check. The monthly opens and larger quarterly major functions put me at a loss.

  26. ibofightback says:

    By definition, profit means factoring in expenses. For me, the 9% bonus alone just about covered all my expenses, that’s cds, meetings, travel etc. For me that was 1000pv in Australia and 1200pv in Europe.

    A 300PV bonus check won’t cover much anywhere, but if you have the 10-20 regular customers every month, as recommended these days (and as taught to me a decade ago) then the retail profit should keep things easily in the black. The problem is of course that for a new IBO it can take some time to get 10-20 regular customers, even if it is being taught.

    Unlike folk like JoeCool I wasn’t doing the equivalent of flying from Hawaii to the mainland for events though. Weekend events are often away, but our LOS organises discounts with buses and/or trains or we car pool, whatever is cheapest for the group. We also stay in the cheapest accomodation we can find, there’s no seminar+food+accomodation tickets. It’s just the seminar ticket. The rest is up to the individual IBO and/or group to organise.

    Some new IBOs in my group chose to fly and stay in better accomodation for distance events. No one was surprised when they later became inactive claiming their expenses were too high! At least they didn’t then go on an anti-amway internet crusade like some. Indeed, they’ve now been IBOs for a decade, don’t build the business or participate in any system events or expenses, but continue to buy stuff regularly.

    “Standing Order” for our system has always been 4 or 5 CDs/tapes per month. Some of the critics who claim large expenses have claimed they were getting that many a week. Clearly their expenses will be higher.

    But … it’s your own business. If someone is buying that many and can’t justify it through their growth and profitability, then frankly I think it’s their own stupid fault. The problem is, they’ll still do what most immature people do and look for someone else to blame and systems and leaders need to be aware of this reality.

  27. tex2 says:

    1formeribo,

    You must be mistaken, Bridgett and ibofb would never “bend” the truth “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”. I think you should apologize to both of them, immediately. In fact, I will apologize for you: Bridgett and ibofb, there must be some misunderstanding on 1former(and very fine)ibo’s part, I’m sure we can work this out in a very gentle, kind, and satisfactory manner for all participants. http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html” Please accept jc’s apologies on my behalf….PLEASE?

    ibofb,

    How dare you imply retailing to non-IBOs (Bridgett, did you notice I didn’t use the apostrophe? I did that for your benefit, I know you prefer the modern punctuation, so if there are any other “old fashioned” or other errors on my part, I would really appreciate you pointing them out to me, I would be very honored to be under your submission in this area that you are an obvious expert, after all, you ARE a movie star, so you have to approve scripts….oops, I mean get someone to do that for you) “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”

    I can’t even imagine an upline taking advantage of people by putting them in designated hotels and taking a cut, or holding meetings so far away it would take more than 24 hours to drive there (not that I am boasting about how large the USA is, I wouldn’t want to make anyone think the USA is better than any other country, as our president has made it clear we are worse than everyone else, and I TOTALLY agree with this….REALLY!). “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”

    Besides, why do you even count the travel, hotel, or meals? Not only is it tax deductible, but it’s more like a vacation, with all of your friends and all, right? How could anyone go on an anti-Amway internet “crusade” (that sounds violent, we’re not talking about the icky Christian/Muslim wars, are we? That grosses me out just thinking of it)? Amway is the finest company in the whole wide wonderful world.

    I also can’t imagine buying more than one CD per week. Who would ever promote that nonsense? “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”

  28. ibofightback says:

    When they kick you out of Amway, Tex, you can join Dave and make some extra money as a comedian instead! That was funny stuff!🙂 lol!

  29. tex2 says:

    WHEN they kick me out? What have you heard from my favorite person of all time (except you, of course), Mr. Jim Dornan? I know he’s on the “inside”, and since you are obviously “tight” with Mr. Dornan, you must know something I don’t know. Details, please.

    Dave is a great and funny guy, but not as great as you and Mr. Dornan, of course.

    Comedian? I wasn’t trying to be funny, what do you mean by “comedian”? Don’t you take me seriously? You’re starting to hurt my feelings. “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”

  30. 1formeribo,

    Yes, at 300 PV—that’s:

    *full-suggested-retail-price,
    *non-self-consumption,
    *CURRENT U.S.A. products,
    *CURRENT retail profit margins
    *in my LOA (much is done via the Internet thus cutting down on expenses like having to do a lot of traveling to share the opportunity, as well as manufacturing and distribution costs of physical “stuff” like audios),
    *with my circumstances (such as building it with two people, hence double travel expenses, double attendance, etc.),
    *with a goal to make “the big money”

    including a 6% BV bonus (I’m not factoring in my higher BV bonus, taking in to account that a brand new person @ 300 PV wouldn’t have much other volume to bump them up into a higher bracket),

    ALL expenses are covered.

    ****************
    If I were looking only to build a retail business, and not build a network, then our expenses would be covered with less than 50 PV to cover the cost of things like some basic people-skill books, samples, catalogs, thank-you cards, postage, and incentives to “buy” my customers’ loyalty.

    *****************
    As I said, there are many ways to build a profitable Amway Business (and there are many ways to build an unprofitable one too).

    And there are many different markets, circumstances, mindsets, and goals of IBOs/ABOs.

    Therefore, one plan of action does not fit all.

  31. tex2 says:

    1former(and outstanding)ibo,

    I think you should listen to Bridgett, she’s a really sharp gal (I hope that wasn’t a sexist word, I don’t mean it that way, really). Okay, businesswoman, how’s that Bridgett? “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”

    Even though most people, who don’t know what they’re talking about, don’t think the products are price competitive at IBO wholesale price, let alone full retail price, they are simply WRONG. In fact, Amway has had 2 price cuts on dozens and dozens of products this year, with most of the difference a reduction of the PV/BV and IBO price, but let’s not let the details get in the way of a strong-willed businesswoman who not only THINKS she’s right, she IS right. Plus, consider all the people who like to spend MORE for their products in this strong and vibrant economy. After all, the more money you can spend for products, the more likely your taxes won’t go up, right? “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”

    And like Bridgett says, don’t even consider buying the products for your own use, just sell them. Self consumption is so 2008. Plus, people will be delighted you thought of them first, right Bridgett? Gosh, I have a lot to learn about being the suffering servant, but I’m trying…honest! “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”

    Bridgett’s audios are probably almost free. In fact, it probably isn’t worth the billing cost because the MP3’s are so inexpensive.

    Who needs to be there in person to show the plan, anyway? It’s not a people business, it’s a product business, after all (also, it’s a small world, after, all, it’s a small world, after all….I love that song and ride at Disney World, don’t you?). “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”

    Bridgett should be listened to, she makes a LOT of sense, because almost everyone LOVES to sell.

  32. So you are ticked off at the Amway Compensation Plan?
    http://www.quixtar.com/about/content.aspx?pid=9896&ctg=16305

    And you are ticked off that the Amway Business offers unique products rather than commodities? http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/08/31/Not-WalMart-and-Never-Want-to-Be.aspx

    You quote Rich DeVos’ Directly Speaking often. Perhaps what he has to say about the kind of products Amway offers, and how to make money by getting customers, and WHY to get customers even for those looking to build a network, escaped you?

    And you are still an IBO? Hmm. To each his own!🙂

  33. tex2 says:

    Ms. Bridgett,

    You didn’t identify who you were asking your excellent questions of, would you kindly provide that information?

    How could anyone be ticked off at the Amway Compensation Plan? After all, knowing how much your gross income will be is all that matters in business, right? As they say, “If the dream is big enough, the (overhead) facts don’t count.”

    Not only are the products unique, but there have been 2 Amway Global price reductions on dozens and dozens of products this year, an average of about 15% IBO cost, which only increases the profit margin on the already excellent retail pricing. It almost makes you want to pay full retail as an IBO, these products are so unique and of excellent quality.

    Oh no, I play all of Rich DeVos’ recordings, both video and audio, and often at the same time, 24 hours a day throughout my home and in my car (but I don’t watch videos while driving, cross my heart and hope to die. Safety First!). He’s so keen, don’t you agree? (but not as keen as my best friend and hero, ibofb) Do you want to be my female friend and hero? PLEEAAZZEE???? If you say yes, then I could have the beginning of a Super Hero group, and I could watch you and ibofb fight poverty all around the world with your businesses. Wouldn’t that be groovy?

  34. tex2 says:

    Oops, silly me:

    “http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/amway-shoots-across-bow.html”

  35. weachu says:

    tex2 it seems to me that you are a sorry bitter man. Is your self esteem so low that you have to be a hater to feel powerful?

  36. tex2 says:

    weachu,

    Why do you say that? I’m a happy man, with a high self esteem (but not too high, I don’t want others to think I think I am better than them), and love everyone, haven’t you noticed?

    http://amwayglobalinsider.opportunityzone.com/2009/04/27/10-Rules-for-Happiness.aspx

  37. 1formeribo says:

    weachu, another successful diagnosis!

  38. tex2 says:

    1former(and most excellent)ibo,

    Wow, now I’m really happy. You and weachu are real doctors? I’m so blessed to be among such geniuses. Plus, they think enough of me to help me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

  39. weachu says:

    I must admit tex2 that your ability to deal out sarcasm at such a rate. Is it a skill perhaps all haters develop? As i have seen it reflected in a number of quitters who need to whine and moan about how nothign works for them.

  40. tex2 says:

    What do you mean by sarcasm? I am a lover of everyone, how could you imply I am a hater? What have I quit? Where have I said nothing works for me?

  41. tex2 says:

    1former(and awesome)ibo,

    That wasn’t nice. You don’t know how much you hurt my feelings, do you?

  42. 1formeribo says:

    tex, it is what it is. Does the truth hurt a bit? LOL

  43. tex2 says:

    1former(and misinformed)ibo,

    The truth is, “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me”, so it doesn’t hurt at all. Laugh out loud, that was FUNNY! Can we play some more?

  44. 1formeribo says:

    tex, I fail to see humor in your racism. What will be funny is seeing Amway kick your a$$.

  45. tex2 says:

    No, you see racism where there is humor. What will be funny is you’ll never know what happens.

  46. tex2 says:

    Correction: You MAY never know what happens.

  47. 1formeribo says:

    I’m pretty sure the information will leak out somewhere. LOL

  48. tex2 says:

    That’s exactly why I said “may.”

  49. […] How the Amway tools became a big business […]

  50. Bill says:

    Well said.. Since tool business was brought in house, why isn’t a progressive compensation scale created for all to use. And should a diamond who is barely 4000 pv continue to het income from selling tools.. This is a fundamental flaw.

    • Bill,
      In the US the tools business isn’t “in house”, however for some years now the compensation plan has had to be approved by Amway. A 4000pv would not be compensated.

      For the record, some groups have *never* compensated people just because of their once-achieved pin, it’s always been volume based, just like the Amway compensation plan

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