How the Amway tool business began?

Okay, by popular demand, or I should say, because Tex wants me to take on this subject, here is part one in a series on the famous “tool business.” Are there abuses and controversy? Obviously so, as online debate shows. But I am going to take this one step at a time. You cannot understand where it is now and how it can be useful or corrupted if you don’t know how it began and why it began.

What is a networking system?

When you are in networking or an MLM and you hear someone talking about “the system” or “system building” or how to make money off of “the system,” what are they talking about? The word “system” is short for “a systematic way to build a network from the standpoint of the field.” This is what has become known as “the system.”

Okay, I will try to explain. Every networking company is launched with a product and a systematic way to sell it and build a network of others to sell it as well. This “system” seldom works. It is developed by well intentioned corporate people who have very idealistic concepts about building networks and even when it is developed by experienced networkers, people who have actually built networks of their own, well, as they say in war, “no plan of battle survives contact with the enemy.” Or in this case, no plan of recruitment and selling works the same way in reality as it does in theory.

To recruit people and sell products, the networkers in the field have to be nimble and quick on their feet and willing to adapt to the reality of the marketplace. And so the methods, or system for building a network, quickly morph into something different from the corporate template. Sometimes, the corporation has to jump through hoops to keep up. They have to make sure that what the field is saying and doing is legal, ethical and not counterproductive.

To speed up the process of networking, the leaders who have success, use books, cd’s and functions to promote what works and to promote each other so they gain the credibility or stature to teach others.

“The system” is a living organism that is changing with the culture and marketplace around it and so the things that work sometimes change in subtle ways. Methods used a year ago may not be perfect for today.

On the surface there is nothing sophisticated about the materials in “the system.” Indeed, they may tend to be mediocre because the art of networking is to find the common denominator and that may just be fifth grade. If your system will only work for exceptional people it will soon cease working even for them. To be successful it has to work for the “average” person.

If there is a father to “the system” it is Dexter Yager, a beer salesman from Rome, New York who was sponsored into Amway in the 1960’s. Dexter discovered positive books, like The Magic of Thinking Big and the books changed his life. He told his upline, Charlie Marsh, about what he was reading and as Dexter told me, Charlie said, “Oh sure, I’ve read all those books.”

Well, Dexter hadn’t read any of them and he wasn’t about to assume that his emerging network of distributors had either. So he started pushing the books along with the Amway products. At first he loaned out the positive books but he couldn’t easily keep track, so he just gave them away.

When I met Dexter Yager in the 1970’s he told me solemnly that there was no money in books. He and his fellow “diamonds” had just financed a book about the city of Charlotte, North Carolina, a large, coffee table book with poetry and color pictures and boxes of these books had sat in their basements for years left to rot, unsold.

I tried to talk him into publishing a book with a little of his own ideas. After all, he had thousands of people in his network. But Dexter was afraid that it wouldn’t work. I had to ghostwrite it and pay for the printing and shipping myself. Dexter didn’t pay a dime upfront. It was published by Bethany in Minneapolis and we called it Don’t Let Anyone Steal Your Dream. I believe that I had 30,000 copies printed and sent to the Charlotte coliseum. We sold them all retail within minutes.

In any case, in the 1960’s, Dexter would start an out of town group only to return a few weeks later to find it dead. Leaving behind a few books to read sometimes started a spark. Sometimes there was more excitement when he returned. There was no money in the distribution of these books. Thousands of them were purchased in bookstores at the full retail price. When I met Dexter he was surprised to know that he could get an 80% discount for full print runs and buy such books direct from the publisher.

Likewise the emergence of tapes was not a moneymaker. In the summer of 1966, Dexter stopped by a motel in Utica, New York to visit with Fred Hanson, one of the more successful distributors in Amway. Hanson had a reel to reel tape recorder and was listening to a motivational tape. “This is what you need Dexter,” Fred said. But the big, bulky machine cost $58.00. The price was too steep for Dexter.

Sometime in the fall of 1966, Dexter Yager recruited (or as they say “sponsored”) a flamboyant, down on his luck, piano player in Schenectady, New York, by the name of Tony Renard. Tony was a chubby, vivacious character with an outsized personality and suits so old that they were practically back in style. Dexter was totally charmed. Tony was a big dreamer and his wife Sue was hopeful. She would sit nervously looking back and forth at Tony and Dex as they talked about all the great things they were going to do, hoping, just hoping that maybe, maybe, a little bit of it would come true.

Dexter finally bought himself a tape recorder and he would haul the big heavy machine up to Schenectady and play motivational tapes for Tony Renard. For a while, anyway, Tony and Sue could believe.

The problem was that they were absolutely broke. The more Dexter tried to help them, the more it didn’t work. Tony thought that if Dexter could stay in town permanently it might take off. And if he couldn’t do that, maybe he could help them buy a tape recorder and they could listen to positive tapes?

Dexter promised Tony that if he hit $1,500 a month, he, Dexter, would buy him a tape recorder. And then he could listen to motivational speakers like Earl Nightingale all he wanted. Well, Tony made it and Dexter bought it. That five inch reel to reel Craig tape recorder may have been the best investment of the 1960’s. Tony built his business and the lesson was learned. If you want to build a successful network, listen to positive tapes.

(Author’s note: In the summer of 2011 I was contacted by Tony Renard’s daughter, Aurel.  She was born that year and heard her mother and father tell this story many times.  And she corrected the details.  It turns out that Tony set the goal for $1,500.  And it was Tony, and only Tony, who paid for the tape recorder.  He bought it second hand for $46.75 from Dexter!  Interesting.  Tony’s wife, Sue is living in Stuart, Florida and active in network marketing.)

Now, this account about “tools”  isn’t over. It will take many posts for me to help the reader get to where we are today. But it is important to know the history behind this. You can’t really understand where we are today if you don’t know how we got here.

For several years I was the only speaker who was invited into all of the different streams of networking groups and from my standpoint the lesson was clear. The hottest groups, the fastest growing groups, were the ones who moved the most tapes. This was not a gimmick, it was a reality.

I remember one year speaking for Rex and Betty Jo Renfro at the Washington Hilton. They were in the Bill Britt group and they were hot. Everybody wanted to know their secret. Well, I knew the importance of tapes and so I made sure I mentioned it in my speech, referring several times to the “tape of the week.”

I was pretty proud of myself until Betty Jo caught me just offstage and said,” Don’t you ever talk about tape of the week to our group. We move more than one tape a week. We have the tape of the day or the tape of the hour.” And they had the group that was growing fastest at the time and it would produce many money makers and leaders in networking. I have seen the same thing all over the world.

But the fact is, when the promotion of tapes and books began they were not big money makers. Not at first. Indeed, they were often a bit of a nuisance. When I first started giving speeches at Dexter Yager’s annual convention in Charlotte, he was making tapes off of a cheap Wollensak duplicator with one slave attached. It was placed on a board on top of a pool table in his basement. His daughter, April, was in charge. And distributors complained about not getting their tapes on time. And Dexter couldn’t wait to break a new diamond because then they would have to make their own tapes and he wouldn’t have to mess with it anymore.

So keep this in mind as we talk about the emergence of “the tools.” Tapes and later cd’s became part of “the system,” because they helped people build their networks. They were not produced to make money, at least not initially. They were begun to build networks and eventually they did indeed make lots of people lots of money, but precisely because they worked. They were not a scam. They were the key to successful networking growth. And while greedy and unethical people may have corrupted the process, that fact is true even today.

(To start at the begining of this series go to Doug Wead Amway Adventure.)

(To go to the next thread.)

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53 Responses to How the Amway tool business began?

  1. tex2 says:

    Doug, thanks for the hokey stories. I find them as exciting as the boring uncle showing slides of his trip to _____ (fill in the blank).

    Although I appreciate the “compliment”, you shouldn’t be doing this because of me, but because hundreds of thousands of current, and millions of former IBOs have been ripped off via the tool scam.

    I and others have mentioned on numerous occasions the tool scam started out as being a help to the IBOs and later turned into THE primary source of income for the upline, and more significantly, results in most IBOs below Platinum to operate at a net loss. Does this sound like a moral and ethical business model to you, Doug?

    Why buy a tape player for someone who is making $1,500/month, by then Tony could afford it. Are you saying Tony went $1,500 listening only to tapes when Dexter was in town, THEN had his own tape player? This would imply tapes may have been useful, but not several per day, as the Renfro’s stated.

    Also, you don’t address whether ANY IBO’s below were making a net profit with all of these tapes, books, functions, etc. THAT is my main point. It involves tool PRICES and system PRACTICES (unnecessary long distance travel in particular).

    I have tapes from the 70′s and 80′s, and except for a very limited amount of dated language, you couldn’t tell it was made last week or 40 YEARS ago. The same books are being used (plus newer ones), and the meeting content has changed little over the past 16 years I’ve been involved. Remember, one of the favorite mantras is, “techniques may change, but principles never do.” Make no mistake, the primary reason tools change is so the downline can throw away the old stuff and buy new stuff. Period.

    Let me get this straight: Dexter was a beer and Sears salesperson, and knew he could buy products cheaper from Amway in bulk, but didn’t realize he could do the same with books from publishers? Is he stupid or are you lying?

    How much money did Dexter pull in from the tickets he sold at the Charlotte meeting when he sold all of the books?

    The one major point I agree with is tapes/CDs help with building an Amway business, and that is why I have purchased about 15,000 of them for about 20 cents each, including shipping, which is about half the total cost. Same with books, I have several hundred of them, and normally pay $1 maximum, plus shipping.

    I think you’re attempting to cloud the issue with cutesy stories, but go ahead, I’m looking forward to chapter 2.

  2. 1formeribo says:

    This is a good post with background information on how the systems began. As your stories indicate, it appears that the tapes and books were started with good intentions of training distance groups. But somewhere in the process, greed apparently set in and the system became the real business.

    p.s. tex is a retard.

  3. tex2 says:

    1formeribo,

    Congratulations for “graduating” into the kindergarten level of “anal-ysis.”

    P.S., 1formeribo is a retard. Want proof? As usual, he is unable to reply to ANY of the points I made. Don’t be too concerned 1formeribo, it’s almost nap time. LOL

  4. 1formeribo says:

    “And while greedy and unethical people may have corrupted the process, that fact is true even today.”

    Apparently, Dexter became one of the greedy people. I have even seen s transcript of a speech Dexter gave where he was speaking as if he were God. Submission to upline and complete 100% dedication to the system was born out of greed and not in the best interest of the faithful downline.

  5. tex2 says:

    Dexter may have been the first, but virtually ANYONE wearing an Emerald and above pin (don’t confuse this with actual current Emerald PV/BV volume) is an LCK (Lying Cowardly “Kingpin”).

    Dexter HAD to do this, or risk losing ALL tool volume as organizations broke away with their own tool scam systems. Even so, some of them didn’t think they were getting large enough of their “cut”, and broke off anyway. It has been well documented several TIMES more is made from tools than Amway for the Emeralds and above.

  6. 1formeribo says:

    Dexter Yager:

    I love you like no other, my hand is on each and every one of you. I want you to forget your circumstances and build this business like you never have before. Your time is running out and there is much to be done for my Kingdom. Don’t worry about things of this world. I have overcome the world, so I can overcome any situation that you might have. I hold the universe in my hand. Do you not think I can hold you also? I am not a man that I should lie, so when I tell you I love you I mean it. When I say I will take care of you, I mean it. Just love me and trust me. Lay back I will catch you. I will be your cushion. Just come and sit with me and get to know intimately for yourself. I will put people in front of you. Trust me! I will change your circumstances. I will change your life if you will just let go and let me. Your time is coming. You are my precious child. Be aware of this one thing. Let it sink deep into your spirit that I love you right now, this morning, just as you are. Stand up, believe in ME. Be counted in My Kingdom and I will bless you beyond measure, your measure, not mine! Throw away the things that are keeping you bound up and I will replace them with the fruits of my spirit. Love, Joy, Peace, Gentleness, Kindness, Longsuffering. You will become a beacon for Me and I will bless you.

    April 12, 1994
    Dexter Yager – Emerald Meeting, Heritage USA

  7. tex2 says:

    The overwhelming hero worshiping is certainly a part of the strategy; as folks taking offense to these kinds of statements will either leave or become compliant, and stay. Those who already think Dexter is the best thing since sliced bread will ask for butter and jelly and it it whole.

    For those wanting to see more ridiculous statements intended to achieve the same goals, see: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/tex-reviews-two-amway-tapes.html By the way, there are more than just 2 tapes listed on the link, and I would find ALL of them hilariously funny, if not for the above manipulation resulting in the tool scam.

  8. tex2 says:

    The overwhelming hero worshiping is certainly a part of the strategy; as folks taking offense to these kinds of statements will either leave or become compliant, and stay. Those who already think Dexter is the best thing since sliced bread will ask for butter and jelly and eating it whole.

    For those wanting to see more ridiculous statements intended to achieve the same goals, see: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/tex-reviews-two-amway-tapes.html By the way, there are more than just 2 tapes listed on the link, and I would find ALL of them hilariously funny, if not for the above manipulation resulting in the tool scam.

  9. joeydacat says:

    Thank you Doug. It’s very honorable for you to address this. ;)

    At least I can agree with Tex on this, I’m also looking forward to this series. Just for the record Tex, I believe calling me a “waste of a human being” was way over the line…. but that’s ok, I forgive you. (See how easy that is?)

  10. jgrice says:

    I just want to know one thing about Dexter Yager: What percentage of his income is derived from the system, and what percentage comes from the sale of Amway products through his organization.

    Here’s a link to Bo Short’s interview on Dateline NBC. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4375477/

    What motive does he have for lying about this?

  11. tex2 says:

    Since when is it honorable to tell the truth? Shouldn’t telling the truth be expected?

    Just for the record joeydacat, I wouldn’t have said it if it weren’t true. (See how easy that is?)

  12. 1formeribo says:

    Here’s the entire truth:

    tex is scott johnson from plano texas

    tex is a forum troll

    tex is a racist

  13. tex2 says:

    Here’s the entire truth:

    1formeribo is from Mars.

    1formeribo is a forum troll

    1formeribo is a racist

  14. joeydacat says:

    Tex, I never personally attacked you one single time. I just said it was a waste of time trying to debate you because you would never address my question. I believe it was you who told me to go read my bible. Maybe you should take your own advice.

  15. 1formeribo says:

    http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/businessopprule/522418-04681.htm

    Comment Number: 522418-04681
    Received: 6/27/2006 11:05:25 PM
    Organization: Johnson Enterprises
    Commenter: Scott Johnson
    State: TX

    I am a Quixtar IBO. I believe Quixtar, together with the affiliated Amway business, to be the largest multi-level business in the world. There has been a “tool”, or “system” scam that has been cleverly covered up over the past several decades. The advent of the Internet has made some inroads to revealing this scam, but much more needs to be done. First, the definition of “tool” or “system” used in this context includes the books, tapes/CD’s and various functions put on by the higher level, or “kingpin” IBO’s.

  16. tex2 says:

    joeydacat,

    I answered your stupid question, you didn’t answer several of mine. Why don’t you skip the Bible and go straight to hell?

    1formeribo,

    Thanks for the publicity.

  17. 1formeribo says:

    Bad publicity ie better tha none. You’re welcome tex, I can make you look stupid anytime you want.

  18. tex2 says:

    The problem is you didn’t make me look stupid, you merely posted what I already sent to the FTC, and you found NOTHING to criticize. That makes YOU look stupid.

  19. 1formeribo says:

    Someone who stays in Amway 16 years without making a profit is stupid. That’s you tex.

  20. joeydacat says:

    I asked like 5 different ways (I tried several times to expound and simplify so that you could understand) so here it is again. How you are “scammed” when you voluntarily choose to spend your money on a product? It has absolutely no effect on your business if someone else is making more profit from a product that you choose to buy for your business.

    Here’s a comparison for you. GM buys its parts from suppliers. If GM doesn’t need or want the part due to discontinuation of a line, it simply stops buying them. If the supplier (upline) is the only place to get a part (tool) that GM needs, they might agrees to pay a premium for the part (cost of tools), it’s their choice. They could also choose to go a different direction due to high cost vs profit potential (not buy tools because I’m low pv guy). It is no effect to GM if the supplier is making 75% on the part (tool) rather than say 30% on a standard part (Amway product) they supply. The business model they present is based soley upon products. Seems you would be excited that when you get to the top, other profits not discussed in the presentation would be available to you.

    Anyone who runs any business knows that to turn a profit, you must earn more than you spend. Bottom line, Tex is a bad CEO of his IBO and needs to stop crying and blaming others for his own failures. Time to suck it up and take a long hard look in the mirror, cause you’ll be looking at the reason that you fail. Insulting me will do nothing to improve upon your inablity to succeed. Am I being clear enough for you Tex? “What free will?” That free will Tex, the choices we all make. Like me wasting my time trying to educate you about life. As we used to say in the Navy, time to “move out, not up, shipmate”.

  21. tex2 says:

    Someone who stays in Amway any number of years, is aware of the tool scam without supporting change is stupid. That’s you 1formeribo/1currrentquitter-loser.

    Joeydacat,

    No, you’re not being clear at all, because your analogy sucks. The upline LCKs (Lying Cowardly “Kingpins”) pretend to be making their profit from Amway, but most of it comes from the tools, AND, more importantly, results in most IBOs below the Platinum level to have a net loss. It has NOTHING to do with “free will”, it has to do with LYING. As we used to say in the Navy, “shape up or ship out.”

  22. teynnensweig says:

    And here I always thought that Amway made laudnry detergent and sold it Avon style. Us sophisitcated metro NYCers don’t see that around here. :-)

  23. tex2 says:

    teynnensweig,

    Amway still makes laundry detergent, and never sold it “Avon style.” You should get out more often. :)

  24. michman1 says:

    Doug, I am glad you are addressing the tool in the Amway business. I look forward to the rest of the series.

    joeydacat, here is a better General Motors example as it relates to this business.

    Imagine you invest in a Chevy dealership. You are prepared to do whatever it takes to build the business. GM tells you that it has a system and all you have to do is to follow it.

    You spend years and countless thousands of dollars going to GM seminars, sending staff to seminars, buying the newest “new and improved” training cds (ones that sound remarkably similiar to the last set of “new and improved” training cds you purchased three months ago).

    Your GM representative tells you that the real measure of how profitable your dealership is going to be is determined by how many people you are sending to their training seminars.

    You say, “I’m not making any money!” Your GM rep says, you need to send more people to more seminars. And you need to purchase more training CDs.

    A year later, you say, “I’m still not making any money! As a matter of fact, I am losing money!” Your GM rep says, you need to purchase even more seminars, more training cds and more GM consultants.

    “What about the cars?” “Don’t worry about the cars. If you send enough employees to the next seminar, your car sales will take care of themselves. Trust us. We have done this before. We have the fruit on the tree. Don’t take advice from your accountant, your financial advisor, your father. Are they as rich as these other dealership owners we keep talking about? Only listen to us if you want to be successful in this business. Your parents only want to steal your dream and your accountant does not understand.”

    Eventually you find out that these representatives earn the majority of their income from you and your staff attending seminars and purchasing training cds.

    And the dealerships you thought made so much money from selling cars and parts were actually making the 70-90 percent of their income from the purchase of seminars and training cds from people like you.

    All the while, you thought you were in the car business. (Silly you).

    Now comes a GM spokesman, who says, “If you spent too much money on seminars and training, that is your fault. You have/had your own business. You should have thought for yourself. Nobody forced you to go attend a seminar. You have a free will.”

    You say, “I was only listening to my GM representative.”

    The GM spokesman says, “Caveat emptor!”

  25. 1formeribo says:

    LOL – tex has been in Amway 16 years and losing his shirt buying tools. What a retard.

  26. tex2 says:

    LOL – 1formeribo is clueless. A shirt buys LOTS of tools when I buy tapes/CDs for twenty cents each, including shipping, and books cost $1 each, plus shipping. LOL indeed.

  27. jcinvictus says:

    Doug,this is my first ” blog” always had better things to do with my life, than to dump angry,virulent, garbage; life is just too short! there’s an olde saying “when you throw dirt all you lose is ground” I would rather sow good seed, which is the purpose of my ‘first blog’
    I first heard you in the early 70′s I was in my early 20′s at the time, graduate school degree in engineering, and never expected to hear what I heard, by that I mean you could take a relatively insignificant verse, and teach successful ‘life principles’ from it when these ‘bloggers’ attack and criticize, I now teach my children to sow good seed, into life,and if criticism comes and it will, first look at the fruits of the crtitic, are they the type of person you’d like to be? are they living the life you’d like to have? if not.. then their barbed comments mean nothing… for they will probably make nothing of their life,embrace their criticism for it is a simple validation that you are doing something right! ahh but I digress, Doug,you have touched me deeply over the years, there is one talk that I treasure: Gideon’s story, yes I love David & the Princess” etc. I spent a fortune on my BS & MS but in your simple, powerful messages, got more practical principles, for how to succeed in life than 12 years high school + 4 years of college then 2 separate graduate programs (education & engineering) the principles I gleaned from listening to you, have helped me become financially, maritally,spiritually, successful! I thank you! remember Calvin Coolidge’s remonstration:It’s not the critic who counts nor the one who points out how the strong man stumbled,or the doer of deeds could have done them better,The credit belongs to the one who is ACTUALLY IN THE ARENA whose face is marred by dust,sweat, and blood who knows the triumph of high achievement,who if he fails at least fails while daring greatly,and whose place will never be among those cold and timid souls who have known NEITHER VICTORY NOR DEFEAT! DOUG, YOU’VE DONE SOMETHING WITH YOUR LIFE YOU’VE TOUCHED THOUSANDS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS w/your books and talks, I thank you, for helping me, my companies would never hire people who will not build for the future unbelievable junk, they’d never make it through the interview process, keep fighting the good fight!
    stay strong my friend

    • GratefulListener says:

      I agree, Jcinvictus!

      Doug, you have done so much for me these last few weeks and you don’t even know who I am. My upline got me some old tapes you cut years ago and put them on CD for me. Life is kind of rough right now and it is not “I am in Amway” rough, it is just the “Life happens” type of hard. Your tapes taught principles that apply to every walk of life, not just to building a MLM business.

      It is true, you cannot have success without critics and so anyone bothering to criticize you is just going out of their way to prove you are a success! Keep encouraging. Keep speaking. Keep helping us grow and learn how to be better. Thank you!

  28. 1formeribo says:

    $1 for tools is more than the profits your Amway business had made in 16 years.

  29. tex2 says:

    1currentloser,

    Not even close. LOL

  30. 1formeribo says:

    Yes tex, I know it’s not close. YOu made no profits and spent thousands on tools. What a buffon you are. LOL

  31. tex2 says:

    1currentloser,

    You don’t have a clue. What a buffoon YOU are, you can’t even spell buffoon! LOL

  32. [...] after that there is Amway and the Tools Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Obama’s ApologyN.T. Wright, Evil, and War on [...]

  33. 1formeribo says:

    Buffoon is spelled t-e-x.

    LOL

  34. tex2 says:

    Buffoon —- Congratulations, you can learn how to spell!

    is spelled t-e-x. —- Oops! I guess not! LOL

  35. 1formeribo says:

    Moron is spelled t-e-x

    Racist is spelled t-e-x

    Loser is spelled t-e-x

  36. tex2 says:

    Looks like 1currentidiot flunked out of kindergarten and missed his nap today! LOL

  37. joeydacat says:

    mitchman,

    It’s nice to see that someone who disagrees with me can keep it about the issues and not take it personally.

    Not sure if you read my posts from the previous article, but I am a very former Amway distributor (been out over 10 years now). So just to clarify, I’m not an active distributor (as I’m guessing your GM rep comment refers to me).

    I spent a lot of money on tools myself back in the day, so by Tex’s standard, I was “scammed” myself. I just don’t see it the same way. My life and the decisions I make in it are my choice. I’m not going to cry about how much money I spent on tools. I’ve lost way more in retirement savings in the last year than I ever spent on tools for my business. It was a learning experience in a lot of ways both good and bad(even a lot of good personal growth from using the tools.) But after a couple of years I decided that it just wasn’t going to happen for me, so I got out.

    It’s not because I’m a “quitter” as some have been accused of, but because I thought for myself. I was also not on standing order the entire time while active, so I know first hand that tool purchases are not a requirement. I appreciate that people feel betrayed or misled, and I can sympathize with that. But I’m not going to be a hypocrite and believe that life is all about personal responsibilty and at the same time not take responsibility for my own business decisions. I believe that standard applies to all.

  38. tex2 says:

    It’s nice to see that someone who disagrees with me can keep it about the issues and not take it personally. —- I don’t take it personally, I just don’t take any BS from anybody on a blog. I tried to be nice when I started out, and soon found the other side didn’t care, just like you don’t care that millions of IBOs have been ripped off over the past few decades.

    Not sure if you read my posts from the previous article, but I am a very former Amway distributor (been out over 10 years now). So just to clarify, I’m not an active distributor (as I’m guessing your GM rep comment refers to me). —- And just the kind of LCKs like the best, you blame yourself for THEIR scam.

    I spent a lot of money on tools myself back in the day, so by Tex’s standard, I was “scammed” myself. —- You and many others. How else can you explain someone telling you they are your “business partner” and “teammate” (their words), then lying about how they make most of their money, from your back pocket via the tool scam?

    I just don’t see it the same way. —- And that’s a large part of why the tool scam is still in action.

    My life and the decisions I make in it are my choice. —- I agree, but when I am systematically lied to, and realize millions of others have been as well, it’s time to stop the scam. Do you believe all the folks Bernie Madoff ripped off simply made a “choice?” If the legal system thought the same, he wouldn’t be in jail right now.

    I’m not going to cry about how much money I spent on tools. —- I’m not either, but I am going to do everything I can to put and END to it.

    I’ve lost way more in retirement savings in the last year than I ever spent on tools for my business. —- So have I, what’s your point? You should have lost more on tools?

    It was a learning experience in a lot of ways both good and bad(even a lot of good personal growth from using the tools.) —- Same here, but that doesn’t excuse a scam. Bernie invited people on his boat, so should he be set free from prison?

    But after a couple of years I decided that it just wasn’t going to happen for me, so I got out. —- Too bad you didn’t realize it probably wasn’t YOUR problem, but that you were caught in a scam that doesn’t work for hardly anyone else, either, especially over the long term.

    It’s not because I’m a “quitter” as some have been accused of, but because I thought for myself. —- Not only did you think for yourself, you didn’t think of others.

    I was also not on standing order the entire time while active, so I know first hand that tool purchases are not a requirement. —- It depends what you mean by a requirement. According to Amway’s rules, you’re right. If you want any help and support, you’re dead wrong.

    I appreciate that people feel betrayed or misled, and I can sympathize with that. —- I’m not looking for sympathy, I’m looking to end a scam.

    But I’m not going to be a hypocrite and believe that life is all about personal responsibilty and at the same time not take responsibility for my own business decisions. —- No, instead you can be a hypocrite by pretending to care about others, but all you’re interested in is yourself.

    I believe that standard applies to all. —- So do I, except I don’t think ONLY about myself.

  39. joeydacat says:

    I said by your standard I was scammed, read between the lines Tex: Your standard is weak, I wasn’t scammed. Don’t take my words out of context.

    Just for the record, When you see a business plan, it is based only on product sales. If you can calculate profit from pv, why is it so hard for you to expand that into potential income at (_________ fill in the blank) network level. It has no relevance what anyone at any convention tells you if the math doesn’t work.
    You do the math and can tell what your income level will be at direct, ruby, emerald, diamond….” The ONLY thing they misrepresent is the extravigance, but all you have to do is the math from pv to determine what your actual income would be. If you don’t do the math, you’re just being ignorant and foolish. It’s not a lie, they are selling you. Trust me, the Navy was not the same as it was sold, but I bought. This is no different. (Just for the record, as much as I was “sold” on the Navy, I am proud to have served…dont’ want you to twist and misrepresent my actual belief on this just like you have done with everything else I’ve posted)

    If you built the system, the revenue would be there … not the same in any way to Bernie Made-Off where the money was never there. Your analogy is totally wrong.

    “Same here” (your personal growth from using tools)….yet here are your quotes….

    “I hope I didn’t IMPLY Doug is not honorable, I now have FOUR data points on this thread alone that PROVE he is not honorable.”

    …and because I don’t agree with your holy war (you defended it with scripture, so by your own definition this is exactly a holy war)…

    “Now I can see why you don’t answer me. What a waste of a human being….
    (and restating) “Just for the record joeydacat, I wouldn’t have said it if it weren’t true.”
    “I answered your stupid question, (actually no, you never did) you didn’t answer several of mine (yes I did but you didn’t like my answers because it goes against your holy war). Why don’t you skip the Bible and go straight to hell?” (after lecturing me on scripture)
    (and assuming that you could possibly even begin to know me from a couple blog posts) “No, instead you can be a hypocrite by pretending to care about others, but all you’re interested in is yourself.”

    Your own words condemn you, not me. Did you actually read books and listen to tapes? Doesn’t sound like a lot of personal growth to me….just from what I’ve seen here anyway.

    I guess it’s ok to spew venom at me cause I’m not standing in front of you. Believe it or not Tex, people posting here are actual human beings, and you would do a lot for your cause by treating people with respect, and winning the battle of ideas instead of dehumanizing people just because they are only comments on a blog to you. (God forbid anybody disagree with you Tex, God forbid)

    I apologize to anyone else who agrees with Tex on the subject matter. It isn’t fair to you that he represents your beliefs. And to think, the only reason I posted in the first place was because I was so tired of hearing him cry. That’ll teach me.

  40. 1formeribo says:

    tex acts like the man on a blog, but when he actually met some other bloggers in person in Prague, he peed in his pants. He is just an armchair quarterback, blaming everything on his personal failure and wrecking people’s blgos instead of fighting with Amway the corporation to stop his tools scam.

    His holy war is a bunch of baloney. tex is not a Christian. He knows little of the Bible and it’s teaching. That much rings loud and clear by the hatred and racist comments he posts.

  41. tex2 says:

    I said by your standard I was scammed, read between the lines Tex: Your standard is weak, I wasn’t scammed. Don’t take my words out of context. —- You also said originally you didn’t care how much was made via the tool scam, and I told you I did care. So does the UK legal system, which hopefully has paved the path for the U.S.

    Just for the record, When you see a business plan, it is based only on product sales. If you can calculate profit from pv, why is it so hard for you to expand that into potential income at (_________ fill in the blank) network level. —- Actually, it is based on business VOLUME, which includes internal IBO volume and non-IBO sales volume. You may have meant this, I just want to clarify. I also expect when I see a business plan, I see the ENTIRE picture (Amway plus tools), not just the part they want to show (Amway only).

    It has no relevance what anyone at any convention tells you if the math doesn’t work. —- It does if they are picking your pocket while at the convention, and from the rest of the tool scam.

    You do the math and can tell what your income level will be at direct, ruby, emerald, diamond….” —- WRONG. You can tell what your GROSS AMWAY profit is, not your NET AMWAY +/-TOOL SCAM profit.

    The ONLY thing they misrepresent is the extravigance, but all you have to do is the math from pv to determine what your actual income would be. —- WRONG. See above.

    If you don’t do the math, you’re just being ignorant and foolish. —- I agree I was ignorant they were lying, but not foolish. Someone shouldn’t expect the tool scam scenario with a 20, 30, 40, or 50 year old company.

    It’s not a lie, they are selling you. —- No they are not, how did you come to that conclusion?

    Trust me, the Navy was not the same as it was sold, but I bought. This is no different. (Just for the record, as much as I was “sold” on the Navy, I am proud to have served…dont’ want you to twist and misrepresent my actual belief on this just like you have done with everything else I’ve posted) —- NOTHING is the same as it was sold, but it shouldn’t be a scam, either.

    If you built the system, the revenue would be there … not the same in any way to Bernie Made-Off where the money was never there. Your analogy is totally wrong. —- My analogy isn’t far off.

    “Same here” (your personal growth from using tools)….yet here are your quotes…. —- What does personal growth have to do with calling a spade a spade, ESPECIALLY if it’s a scam?

    “I hope I didn’t IMPLY Doug is not honorable, I now have FOUR data points on this thread alone that PROVE he is not honorable.” —- And he still hasn’t answered.

    …and because I don’t agree with your holy war (you defended it with scripture, so by your own definition this is exactly a holy war)… —- I used Scripture as an analogy, which obviously went over your head, even though I used the word “analogy” explicitly.

    “Now I can see why you don’t answer me. What a waste of a human being…. —- So I should sit back and take your abuse? No dice, I consider you a Somalian pirate supporter.

    (and restating) “Just for the record joeydacat, I wouldn’t have said it if it weren’t true.” —- Because it IS true.

    “I answered your stupid question, (actually no, you never did) you didn’t answer several of mine (yes I did but you didn’t like my answers because it goes against your holy war). —- I answered your question, you STILL haven’t answered several of mine.

    Why don’t you skip the Bible and go straight to hell?” (after lecturing me on scripture) —- After again not answering my questions.

    (and assuming that you could possibly even begin to know me from a couple blog posts) “No, instead you can be a hypocrite by pretending to care about others, but all you’re interested in is yourself.” —- As you have amply demonstrated.

    Your own words condemn you, not me. —- Ditto.

    Did you actually read books and listen to tapes? —- Still do, you should visit my site and read some of my reviews: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/tex-reviews-two-amway-tapes.html

    Doesn’t sound like a lot of personal growth to me….just from what I’ve seen here anyway. —- That’s because you’re clueless.

    I guess it’s ok to spew venom at me cause I’m not standing in front of you. —- I would be happy to repeat every single word in person.

    Believe it or not Tex, people posting here are actual human beings, and you would do a lot for your cause by treating people with respect, and winning the battle of ideas instead of dehumanizing people just because they are only comments on a blog to you. (God forbid anybody disagree with you Tex, God forbid) —- Human beings who don’t care about others being ripped off, how am I supposed to “respect” that?

    I apologize to anyone else who agrees with Tex on the subject matter. —- Why do you think you need to apologize for someone else’s view, you don’t even care if others get ripped off?

    It isn’t fair to you that he represents your beliefs. —- As Ronald Reagan would say, “There you go again….”

    And to think, the only reason I posted in the first place was because I was so tired of hearing him cry. That’ll teach me. —- You don’t seem to have learned much at all.

  42. tex2 says:

    1currentloser,

    tex acts like the man on a blog, but when he actually met some other bloggers in person in Prague, he peed in his pants. —- You weren’t even there, you don’t have a clue. But at least I use the same handle on different blogs, right jc (educated guess)?

    He is just an armchair quarterback, blaming everything on his personal failure and wrecking people’s blgos instead of fighting with Amway the corporation to stop his tools scam. —- You need to read my blog more if you think I’m not “fighting” with Amway.

    His holy war is a bunch of baloney. tex is not a Christian. He knows little of the Bible and it’s teaching. That much rings loud and clear by the hatred and racist comments he posts. —- You don’t have a clue, 1currentidiot.

  43. 1formeribo says:

    I read some accounts of the bloggers conference. Everyone said tex was a nice guy when he was in person and became a wimp and a punk back behind the keyboard. I read various accounts of that trip, including some comments from others who confirmed tex was scared shitless in person but acts like tex the brave safely back at home.

    I read your blog. It’s like a crazy man walking down the street talking to yourself.

    I notice you have no defense to being a fake Christian and being full of hatred and racism.

  44. tex2 says:

    I read some accounts of the bloggers conference. —- Really? Did you get The Big Apple’s input regarding what I said to him prior to meeting ibofb?

    Everyone said tex was a nice guy when he was in person and became a wimp and a punk back behind the keyboard. —- Yes, there were 2 people, one of them Bitchett, who suggested I should have resorted to a physical confrontation/violence, in a foreign country to boot!

    I read various accounts of that trip, including some comments from others who confirmed tex was scared shitless in person but acts like tex the brave safely back at home. —- See above.

    I read your blog. It’s like a crazy man walking down the street talking to yourself. —- That’s because you don’t see me talking to the FTC and others, using my cell phone.

    I notice you have no defense to being a fake Christian and being full of hatred and racism. —- You don’t have a clue.

  45. 1formeribo says:

    tes, IBOfightback is right. You are a wimp and a troll.

    You are also a fake Chritian. You demnstrate zero Godly attributes.

  46. 1formeribo says:

    Oop, I meant tex, of course.

  47. tex2 says:

    1currentquitter, I am right. You are a wimp and a troll.

    You are also a fake Christian. You demnstrate zero Godly attributes.

  48. tex2 says:

    Oops, I meant 1currentmoron, of course.

  49. 1formeribo says:

    For sure tex is 1 current moron.

  50. tex2 says:

    For sure 1formeribo is 1 current moron. LOL

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