Kenneth Copeland’s Jet

Behind Senator Grassley’s Crusade Against The Pentecostal Six

While fully 16,000 corporations operate their own aircraft and 60,000 more have part ownerships as well as leases, we are now learning that Republican Senator Charles Grassley’s investigation of six Pentecostal Ministries was prompted by the fact that they owned private jets. He has reportedly asked the six Pentecostal ministries to give him every credit card receipt for the last five years. He has asked at least one of the ministries to give him the name of every musician or speaker who has ever stood in his pulpit in the last four years.  But the jets, we are told, were the straws that broke the camel’s back, or the donkey’s back, and provoked the investigation, for the Senator insists that true Christians should ride donkey’s as Jesus did when he entered Jerusalem. (Google for the Senator’s live comments.)

And the Senator, as a practicing Christian, surely does the same, for there is nothing in his theology that distinguishes between ministers of the gospel and practitioners.  If it is morally wrong or insensitive for one, it is surely wrong for the other.  So the Senator cannot hold the ministers to a higher standard than he would hold himself. You can be sure that Senator Grassley never hops on corporate jets, nor leases them, nor does he even use automobiles.  (You know that donkey poo all over the Capitol parking lot?  Yep.)

The question is this.  If it is inherently carnal, sinful and materialistic for a Pentecostal Ministry to own a jet, why is it lawful and acceptable for other religions and ministries to have them?  Billy Graham and the Mormon Church are just a couple that come to mind.  And if Jesus and his First Century transportation is the point of reference, then should we expect Senator Grassley to go after all those thousands of other ministries that lease jets?  Which means just about every major religious organization in America?  I once flew in a helicopter around town with a friend who was doing his daily chores.  It so happens that my friend was a Catholic Cardinal.  Was the helicopter owned by the Archdiocese or leased or a loaner?  Grassley should be onto that one in a heartbeat.  Indeed, we should expect the Senator to boycott the imminent arrival of His Holiness, himself, who has opted to arrive in America in an evil, privately leased, commercial jet rather than a sailing ship and donkey.

Actually, the leasing of jets can be even more expensive and wasteful of God’s money than the outright ownership of jets, depending on the situation.  Perhaps Grassley should call for a government agency to arbitrate such issues, that is, for those non Pentecostal ministries that the U. S. Senate decides should be allowed to own or lease jets.  Meanwhile, the Grassley six had better buy up all the donkeys still out there. They actually could have done a little better than American Airlines did this past week. With a shuttle of donkeys, Pony Express style, Joyce Meyers, one of the targeted six Pentecostals, might be able to make the trip from Chicago to New York in a few weeks, dictating her next book on the way.  Unless the Senator uses his bully pulpit to prohibit books.  Come to think of it, I don’t remember that Jesus ever actually wrote any books either. Uh oh.

There are thousands of ministries and religious organizations. Many of these organizations have leaders far more wealthy than Grassley’s six, and some enjoy lifestyles far greater. They all have homes large and small, owned by the ministry or owned personally by their pastors who get parsonage allowances.  Some have schools, some have jets, some have tennis courts and indoor swimming pools, some even have hotels.  Some own large acreage in the middle of city centers, acreage that is worth more than all of the assets of all six of Grassley’s targets combined. Some have tapestries on the wall worth more than the homes that the networks will fly over in their helicopter videos when their attacks begin.  Why isn’t there a fair way to sort all of this out?  To determine what is honest or no?  To determine which salary is justified and matches the doctrines preached and which salaries and compensation packages don’t?

Ahh, but you see, there is.  Such a system is already in place.  And over the years it has been refined by the congress and the presidents and the courts.  It has all of this down to a fine science.  It is the Internal Revenue Service.  Now, evangelicals are not especially the favored targets of the IRS.  When I worked in the White House evangelical leaders were troubled over the fact that only one evangelical could be found in the top 300 positions at the agency.  And the one we found was a “pseudo-evangelical,” a Catholic Pentecostal.  At the time, evangelicals numbered 39% of the American population and felt that the absence of evangelicals at the IRS was leading to unhealthy misunderstandings over doctrine and practice.  Nevertheless, the IRS is tasked with all of this.  It may confirm, for example, that salary to a religious leader be determined by a “compensation board” which is not influenced by those who receive the pay.  And ironically, all audits of religious organizations are guided by rules that Senator Grassley authored himself.

So what’s the problem?  Well, the problem is that two of the six ministries he is publicly attacking have just experienced an exhaustive audit by the IRS and were given a clean bill of health!  A third has recently hand delivered a letter to the IRS, asking them to conduct an audit of their organization.

Since the IRS cannot do what the Senator wants, he has decided that as a one man, prosecutor, trial and jury he, himself, will take out the six ministries that have coincidentally been the doctrinal nemesis of his own church for the last century.  He has told us that he has been mulling this over for two years.  The jets are what finally pushed him over the edge.  He knows that what the courts and prosecutors and evidence and fairness can’t do, demagoguery can accomplish.  He knows this because he has a powerful ally, the media.

Grassley knows that the media hates all religions. (Except some selected white Protestant brands, traditional favorites of elderly stockholders now in their Connecticut retirement and still possessing some small influence on their investments.)  The media tends to hate Catholics, Evangelicals, Mormons, and any and all off beat brands like the Church of Scientology, etc.  So he will spoon feed the story to his media sidekicks, who are chomping at the bit over these few ministries who have been culled from the herd and are thus vulnerable to attack.

It is nothing personal for the media.  It is show business and food.  They would just as easily pounce on Senator Grassley’s own Baptists and eat them as well.  He knows that and is willing to risk it to get rid of some doctrinal enemies.  Besides the herd will just move on to the next watering hole, a little safer now that the media lions have been sated.

And how does the Media feel about being used to settle a doctrinal score?  They don’t even bat an eyelash.  All religious belief is a blur to them. And programming is just formula.  They have already sent helicopters over the house of one ministry touting it as a mansion from the sky, not pointing out to their viewers that the preacher doesn’t actually own the house they are showing, the ministry does, nor pointing out the obvious, that “the mansion,” which sits in steamy, sultry Texas, has no swimming pool and is built on acres of land that is worth less than a quarter lot in New York, Boston, or Los Angeles.  But boy does it look awesome from a helicopter and it has lots of square feet.  So it will work for the story and the public will all feel the appropriate outrage because they will not know the other side of the story.

When he was five years old, Kenneth Copeland, the preacher whose ministry is the target of choice referred to above, saw his first airplane, he was smitten on the spot.  He turned to his dad and said, “Someday, I am going to fly one of those things.”  When he grew up he became a famous Pentecostal preacher and a champion of the Biblical quotation that promises, “What things you desire, when you pray, believe that you will receive them and you will have them.”

Ahh, if he had only been a movie star, or a capitalist businessman, or a Saudi, or a Baptist, he could have had his airplane, any kind he wished.  And Senator Grassley would have only smiled benignly.  Or if he had only paraphrased his Bible just a little, just for the sake of a cranky old senator.  “What things you desire, when you pray, believe that you will receive them and you will surely lease them.”

Ahh, too bad, too bad.  Kenneth Copeland just had to “have them.”

Pictured below?  The new, 200 passenger jet for the Speaker of the House of Representatives.

Update: September, 2010

Meanwhile, since this post was written, The U.S. House of Representatives ordered a replacement for the small USAFC-20B jet, Gulf Stream III that came with the Speaker’s job.  Here is a picture of the 200-seat, USAF C-32, Boeing 757 jet that flies Nancy Pelosi back to California without stopping.

Flying home to California every Friday and returning every Monday costs taxpayers a bundle.  The estimated cost is $60,000 one way.  At this rate, it is a monthly cost of $480,000 and an annual cost, factoring in recesses, of $5.7 million.

Ms. Pelosi recently called for the taxation of American’s IRA’s and 401 K’s.  Thank God for our elected officials who can protect us from religious leaders and false doctrines and who show us by example what good stewardship is really all about.

Doug Wead is a presidential historian and New York Times bestselling author.  He is a former special assistant to the president to G. H. W. Bush. Wead grew up a Pentecostal and was once a board member to one of the targeted six ministries.

296 Responses to Kenneth Copeland’s Jet

  1. quizaxehatrack says:

    As a “Non-Thiest”, I am very worried by sentaor Grassleys’ approahc. those of use hwo are Non-Thists, Atheists and Agnostics are acutely aware that we have little to no place ion the political game. Have you ever heard of a candidate declaring that they are an atheist – they know fully wel it would be political doom to say that.

    That being said, I think that what Senator Grassley is doing is reprehensible. He is obviously targeting a specific group becasue he does not beleive their approach. He makes no attempt to go after the Catholic church land holdings or the profitable, tax -exempt colleges and universities run by pastors of his own faith.

    His approach is the cheap old socialist “divide the classes by pointing at the wealthy” approach. How 20th century!

    There is a reason that our founding fathers found it wise to make certain there was no state religion and that the Suprmem court reaffirmed this with a declaration that the power to tax is the power to destroy.

    Grassley is using the state to go after a group he does not like, pure and simple.

    And it stinks.

  2. heyamatt says:

    LOL…. thats funny.

    Yeah, Jesus may have rode in to Jerusalem on a donkey, but when he left, He flew!

  3. eyeingtenure says:

    heyamatt amuses me. Heh.

  4. berain2 says:

    John Adams once wrote to Thomas Jefferson, “Power always thinks it has a great Soul, and vast Views, beyond the comprehension of the weak, and that it is doing God Service, when it is violating all his Laws.” There is something about this Grassley inquisition that, as you say, stinks. Fair is fair, and if six ministries are to be investigated, why would they all be of one denomination? I don’t get it. As John Adams went on to say, “Power must never be trusted without a check.”

  5. gogie says:

    I believe it is incumbent on each of these ministries to exercise their constituional rights and see this thing through because the implications of this are chilling. They should respect the government but not fear it, after all one of the fundamental foundations of this country was freedom from religous suppression by government. I find it quite ironic that the Senator is concerned about “waste” and “lavishness” when many of his colleagues are involved in pork projects that waste millions of taxpayer dollars. Someone involved in this has an agenda, either the folks who provided information to the Senator or Grassely himself, maybe both?

  6. pgsatt says:

    We, as born again Christians must understand that, if one is making a difference in this world for the sake of the Cross, preaching the truth, winning the lost, feeding the poor, laying down their live’s; Jesus said that that persecution would come. But we can’t lay down and let the enemy destroy the work and the ministries that the Lord has entrusted us with. Unfortunantely, religion has raised it’s ugly head, just like it did when the Son of Man walked this earth, some 2 thousand years ago. We, as then, must stand up to the Pharisee with the love of Jesus and our constituional rights as citizen’s of this wonderful land we live in. We must pray for our fellow brother’s and sister’s that are being persecuted in this ridiculous target of jealousy and ugliness for the so called “sake of religion”. My highest regards and prayers go out to all of you for your integrity and the non compromising gospel that you preach. You Will Prevail!!!

  7. 77mm says:

    You know I just also thought of the strange lack of support for Mike Huckabee by some huge Pentecostal leadership. Perhaps this attack was to cause intimidation of these major leaders to stand up for a pure guy like Huckabee vs a choice of the elitists. If they were thinking that they do not want to be targeted with an investigation and thus
    the threat of losing their backers, perhaps that is why they chose not to go with one who came from them and went with one coronated upon them. Just a thought-Grassley came from Washington, and I know at least one of the “six” strongly supported Huckabee, and I am will to wager that the others favored him as well. Washington elitists did not want Huckabee!

  8. […] on Mass transit ridership5 Ways to Reduce Tax… on Waukesha Carnival – Better lat…Blogking2253 on Grassley […]

  9. rileystephenson says:

    Thank you Doug! I appreciate you showing the TRUTH! Thank you for your years of service to this country! Our forefathers would be proud!

  10. raleyb says:

    77mm you’re onto to something there with the Huckabee comments.

    As far as the post goes:

    I’m a evangelical of a less charismatic nature, but to deny the verses Doug is writing about is short-sighted. I often think if I had a stronger faith in these particular verses, I would be much more blessed for doing so. This investigation is absurd. Congress has no business arbitrating Christian churches, baseball drug use, and we’d all be a lot better off if they left the economy alone as well.

    Our elected officials should spend their time solving problems like our infrastructure- the defense of our country and borders- and cutting spending and taxes with some ingenuity.

    Senator Grassley needs to remember- In doctrine unity- In matters of opinion liberty- In all things love.

  11. davidblack2 says:

    I think all churches with a non-profit tax exempt status should be investigated to ensure against abuse.

    Churches and charities are among the biggest scams going with the way their leaders live opulently on donor contributions. Anyone who donates to a church or charity is a chump because they skim off the top and then send the rest away without any guarantee that the funds or materiel reach their destination.

    I say abolish the non-profit tax exemption.

  12. berain2 says:

    There is too much stuff going on that isn’t fair, and isn’t truthful, as well. For anyone needing any evidence to that, merely needs to go to the following link and watch what a major news program did to a ministry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu82W0o4200. Then, maybe we could all stop throwing stones and get back to a higher level of thinking and behaving.

  13. berain2 says:

    And, while we are on the subject of fair is fair, how about Senator McCain using his wife’s company jets for campaigning?

  14. davidblack2 says:

    Imagine! An accused party declaring their innocence!

    What accused party ever declares their guilt when fingered?

    I’m not going to judge whether Dr. Price is guilty or not guilty. That’s for the courts to determine. But when I see the video of that 32 acre spread and him in those custom tailored suits, there’s clearly something wrong there.

    I don’t care how many African bush babies he’s feeding. Leading the life of a bleeding heart altruist with a generous tax exemption doesn’t exonerate him from personal responsibility.

  15. davidblack2 says:

    “And, while we are on the subject of fair is fair, how about Senator McCain using his wife’s company jets for campaigning?”

    He is perfectly within the law to do so. Besides, it’s his wife’s resources he’s using, not contributions from gullible people buying salvation.

  16. […] issue raised with a first time Mormon running for president.  We have seen the issue raised with Senator Grassley who is investigating churches that espouse an doctrine and version of Christianity different from […]

  17. jamesbeneareach26 says:

    Hey just want everyone to know I read the whole document and it is a Violation of privacy and Mr. Grassley needs to retract his statements, apologize for the investigation and move on.

  18. 12sw says:

    I have to say thanks, for telling the truth, that most people don’t have the guts to share. I find it rather odd that celebrities in Hollywood can fly in private and owned jets, but people who are truly and genuinely doing God’s work, well, it becomes a problem. As a Christian, I will be especially careful in what I write; but I have to say that it is menial of Sen. Grassley to target this group of people, did he have anything else to do with his time? As stated above from Doug, I read the Bible everyday, and if I wasn’t mistaken, I did see that Jesus said” Whatsoever you ask when you pray, believe, and you shall HAVE whatever you pray”. These preachers are living what they are teaching, don’t we all want a REAL religion that actually works in our lives? Every type of persecution that these ministries are experiencing right now is all scriptural. You know you’re doing something right when you are facing excessive criticisms…at his position as a political leader( or not),it looks pretty bad. When someone see that someone is achieving things, they tend to get jealous and try to bring the other person down. Grassley mentions that he is a Christian; he tries to sound humble when he says that” Jesus rode a donkey”, but in reality, that isn’t humility. There are over sixty plus scriptures that speaks on prosperity that God wants for His children and the Bible was written for us today, God knew that we in the 21st century could not ride donkeys to and from work. He set the “what you sow is what you’ll reap law” in motion.

    All I have to say is that GOD IS AWESOME and HIS WORD is TRUE!!!

  19. davidblack2 says:

    With all due respect to the tenets of anyone’s personal religious observation, the fact remains that the US Tax Code subsection 501 regarding tax exempt organizations trumps all in this case.
    Quoting all the scripture you wan’t doesn’t change U.S. law.

    By the way, I’m sure most if not all Hollyweird figures that fly private jets aren’t operating non-profits. If they are, then they deserve the same scrutiny.

  20. Lynda says:

    Lynda…

    Ordinary people believe only in the possible. Extraordinary people visualize not what is possible or probable, but rather what is impossible. And by visualizing the impossible, they begin to see it as possible….

  21. atalhea says:

    (And They All Lived Happily Ever After)

    In case you missed it in kindergarten, here’s a little update from brother Matthew on playing well with others: Judge not, that you be not judged (yourself)!

    And by the way, God is not mocked; whatsoever a man sews, he reaps.

    Oh, is that the recess bell? See you on the playground.

  22. davidblack2 says:

    Please don’t presume that brother Matthew speaks for everyone.

  23. Thank you for speaking the Truth Doug Wead, What a blessing you are to our Nation. Through KCM, Creflo & Joyce I have found that reading the word of God is the best way to see Truth. Thank you folks as well for directing me to the word of God to find my Truth. I have come so far and expect even more wonderful things. Doing it Gods way expecting God’s Blessing!

  24. dreamvoyager3d says:

    If the government used taspayer dollars as wisely as do the ministries of Copeland and Dollar our country would not be facing a multi-trillion dollar deficit each year. Voters in the senator’s district may call him to task for acting irresponsibily when he is up for re-election. However, we must remember the senator a person and we should pray for all people

  25. davidblack2 says:

    Lynda, you should avoid reading self-help books.

    Success is in large part attributable to one thing … luck.

  26. weadread says:

    There’s good news. It’s the overlooked point. The prosperity message, found throughout the word of God, bears fruit. Its preachers and teachers are not the only ones financially elevated. I am sorry your religion imposes poverty and limitations on you, but you really have no excuse as long as you have a Bible and can read.

    The automatic assumption that ministry (not private by the way) jets have to be drawn from extortion shows the assumer’s shallow understanding of the validity and strength of the Gospel. If you don’t believe or choose to believe in the Bible’s clear claims toward financial provision and increase, don’t worry, you won’t be bothered with them.

    Having worked in Pentecostal ministry circles, I know for a fact that many impose checks and balances upon themselves, that no one can appropriate funds at will, that they have realtime Boards of Directors and committees who set salary levels, increases, etc. The ones who actually operate as “dictatorships” as the Senator alleges, generally fall of their own weight, as we have seen in the past.

    Another assumption is that the millions of contributors whom many feel must be protected from themselves are robotic followers. It’s absurd. This is a free country. Millions of dollars freely sent by millions of free people – all ignorant and duped? Now, that is really hard to believe.

    I am sorry about people’s cynicism. Whenever you become the least bit open to turning from it, there is good news. God is building his kingdom in the earth and he is well able to fund the pipeline that brings or flies the Gospel. He has millions of enlightened minds and thankful hearts responding to his call upon them to be a part. And he repays beyond the financial markets of the world system, in both intangible and tangible ways.

    Trade in your luck, davidblack2 – it is not giving you either the inner or outer return that the Father God in Heaven is willing and able to supply. Just take a step toward him – he’ll do the rest.

  27. davidblack2 says:

    I sadly note that none of you are able to construct a defense based on reason and rationality.

    As long as anyone drinks from your glass of kool-aid, you’ll go to any extreme to justify their actions, instead of letting your own mind and intuition make judgments as to what is right and wrong.

    I am so happy that I am a free thinking human being. Yes, that’s right, I am happy. I’m happy to know that I do not have to surrender my hard earned money to buy contentment in this life and in an alleged afterlife that can’t be proven to exist using scientific method.

  28. davidblack2 says:

    dreamvoyager3d needs to avoid those strawman arguments.

    Defending greedy ministers by attacking the government isn’t very smart way to make your case.

  29. weadread says:

    You ignore the logic presented, quite dedicated in doing so. Your responses play on other comments – just criticism and patronage. The after-life is above science, as is God. Have you read his book? How arrogant of man to reason out the things of God, the thing created defying the creator. You believe a lot of things in everyday life that neither you nor science can prove. Can you prove science? You seem to have so much faith in it. Have you verified their claims for yourself? No Heaven or Hell? Don’t bet your life on it. Your sweep on the practices of churches and non-profits lacks substance, proof. You do not verify the things you disdain but reveal your non-contact with them. Whenever these issues are raised over ministerial or church issues, the non-churched, non-believing always weigh in the heaviest, bringing a huge body of ignorance to the table. Cynicism is not truth, nor knowledge nor even information. Best not to criticize what you don’t understand.

  30. weadread says:

    Like logic? Where is the logic in the source of your information about alleged ministerial misconduct or mismanagement? From the media circus? It seems you have picked up their habit of rushing to judgment, failing to get facts, much less getting them straight. They are proven liars. They only retract or back down when made to do so, yet they repeat the process over and over again. Why? Because gullible persons such as yourself continue to swallow it wholesale. Free thinking? Reason and rationality? Where is the reason and rationality in sitting in front of a boob tube, soaking up trash and spreading it around without an ounce of verification. I challenge you to watch the Kenneth Copeland program for one week – the Believers Voice of Victory. Would your arrogance allow it? Or, are you one of those persons whose mind is made up and doesn’t want to be confused with the facts?

  31. felixlucid says:

    A scientifically unverifiable afterlife you say? Setting aside the absurdity of any carnal mind attempting to present it’s subconsciously deleted, distorted, and generalized interpretation of the mere 3% of the visible light-spectrum perceivable by the human eye as “logical” or “reasonable” allow me direct your attention right back unto yourself. You’re quick to attack the integrity of these non-profit church organizations strictly on the basis of a minister’s supposedly lavish lifestyle, but are you the caliber of man who would actually perform independent, free-thinking research regarding how ministries such as KCM use it’s funds? If there’s one thing you demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt through your posts on this topic, it’s been the fragility of your belief system. Your refuse to allow information into your frame of reality which may in any way challenge your self professed understanding of life. Drinking kool-aid sure delivers a mouthful of flavor doesn’t it? Before you know it, you desperately crave another cup and eventually another flavor. Soon enough, you start creating your own recipes in a vain attempt to achieve a measure of satisfaction. Kool Aid will never quench your thirst my friend; only the Living Waters of Christ Jesus can do that. Your media is your kool-aid, and your knowledge is your tragedy.

  32. davidblack2 says:

    You sound like the liberals I despise. They, too, abide by specious and emotionally charged dogma and will smear anyone that attempts to usurp it or its power over its loyal constituents. They happily guzzle that kool-aid.

    The MSM has long failed to provide prompts for my thinking. I have long believed in the scam that is televangelism. This Copeland thing is just another example of potential abuses in the name of salvation. They are and have always been, at the core, snake oil salesman and cheats. I present Jim and Tammy Bakker as Exhibit A. How about Jimmy Swaggart as Exhibit B? Yet, so long as there are lemmings willing to trade their dollars for a few fleeting moments of rapture, then the scam will continue ad infinitum. Those little people like you are getting what they want out of the deal, so the salesmen are seen as infallible.

    “They made me FEEL GOOD!” Sorry, I’ve never needed to pay anyone to “feel good.”
    Some men do that with prostitutes.

    Is a televangelist any different? Not really. It’s just packaged better.

    A person can achieve salvation by privately praying, privately reading scripture, and leading a clean a decent life. There’s no need to line the pockets of opulent hucksters like Copeland, Dobson, Hinn, et al, with their thousand dollar custom made suits, million dollar homes, and private jets.

    Jesus of Nazareth didn’t live that way, did he? Why aren’t they following his example if they are so devout and representative of his teachings?

    The only way to go through life is to question everything and everyone. This writer has never been bought or sold by any outside interest as a result.

  33. davidblack2 says:

    Wow, felixlucid, remove a supernatural being from the equation and you have no foundation for your thinking, do you?

    So who really has a fragile belief system?

    You evangelicals can’t stay on track. You’ve been duped by high roller televangelists who trade slavation for dollars and you can’t admit that even Jesus of Nazareth would gag over what has been done in his name if he could be here to witness it.

  34. weadread says:

    Black, did you know that the first contact, the kickoff on the investigation of the ministries in question was the senator holding a press conference? The ministries first found out that information was being asked of them through reporters calling for a response to the press conference. What is up with that? It is part of a trend with the Senate hauling in people such as sports figures, in a highly cavalier fashion. Meanwhile, who’s minding the store up there? The senator’s office has stated that they want the information so they can make it public, that people have a right to know. Did you know that some of the ministries post their annual statements on their websites in detail? Did you know that several of them have recently been audited and passed the audit? Did you know that the IRS is the legal entity for this financial delving and not the US Senate? Have you heard of the abuse of power? Have you heard of the McCarthy hearings with a similar pattern? Did you know that the faxed (post-press conference) questions and requirement of records included the ministries donor list, in total? Did you know they asked for a list of every person who has been a guest speaker in the pulpit of any of the ministries, all the way back? Did you know there are privacy laws in the United States? Did you know that the IRS is the agency for fiscal investigation because they have privacy laws in place? Did you know that Senator Grassley helped get those privacy laws in place as pertains to churches particularly? Did you know that the presidential libraries are refusing to disclose their donor lists for privacy reasons? Individuals and corporations do not want their giving record up for public scrutiny or in the hands of political agencies who can use it against them when opposing parties come to power? And it is coming to power. In fact, the Senators involved in this investigation are seizing power not allotted them. What do ministries have to hide? Again, they post their annual statements and financial information done by reputable accounting firms. The Senator began with the media and has declared they will publish what they get. These ministries do not sell their donor lists. They don’t. Some may, but KCM particularly resolved at their onset not to do that. What is the Senate about requiring it and with the stated purpose of flinging the information to the wind? It violates privacy. Don’t mind them coming after Kenneth Copeland? Did you know that once the walls are down on this sort of thing, they can come after you? The ministries refusing to provide this information are within their Constitutional rights. It’s not hiding; it’s protecting what the government seeks to abuse, stated they will abuse. No one is attacking the government here, the senator’s office, the Senate. On the contrary, the senator is on the attack and he is attacking things he has no right to. A precedent is in the balance here. Once they have the information and it is out there, flung to the media, they can do anything with it, as they always do. They can sound byte it, add or subtract from it, use it however they wish. Did you know that KCM went to the senator’s office at the outset to discuss this, to inform that they would provide all information except the private information? Did you know that they submitted something like 291 pages by the December 6, 2007 deadline? Did you know that KCM went to the IRS and invited them to come in and audit them in this, telling them they would give them, the legal entity for this, whatever they wanted? Did you know a person is innocent until proven guilty in this country? Did you know that is not automatic? Did you know citizens have had to enforce their rights, even in this free country, when they are challenged, even by government entities? Do you remember the IRS abuse during the Clinton administration and its subsequent correction? Would you like your private records, those of your business, associates flown to the wind? Would you care for a trial by media? That is exactly what the senator is about, even stated. Did you know that the Constitution is being treated like youth camp rules here by the senator and his office? Did you know that First Amendment rights are assured to even people you don’t like? Would you like to see America remain free? Did you know that people privately give large sums of money and gifts to ministers of the Gospel out of genuine love and leading of God to do so? Do you think that the big houses, the fine cars and best things are just for the pornographers, the liquor industry, etc.? Did you know the Kingdom of God is for real and that God is not against his people being rich, just not covetous? Face it. The church is not poor anymore and that doesn’t make them crooks. Again, the trial by media and presumption of guilt and misconduct is an extremely irresponsible position to take. There’s more to it than you’ve got figured out.

  35. weadread says:

    The garden of Eden lacked no good thing, had precious stones, gold – until the fall. Abraham, God’s covenant man, was rich in cattle, silver and gold, exceedingly rich. His son and heir, Isaac, was so wealthy that the Philistines envied him and their king asked him to leave their area (he was overshadowed by Isaac’s wealth). You can track personal wealth as a blessing when the covenant was kept throughout the Bible. Jesus’ donkey was the upscale means of travel of that day. Most people walked. Poverty doctrine came into the church later. It is not the doctrine of the Bible.

    De 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

    Ec 5:19 Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.

    2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

    1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

    Pr 10:22 The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.

    These are some. Yes, there are many warnings concerning riches and wealth because of its potential to lead one away, corrupt, etc. There are warnings concerning the use of power such as electricity. Unharnessed, it is dangerous. Harnessed, it does much goodd. In fact, broke people have little to no impact. The Gospel should be proclaimed and spread and in this day, it takes travel and fast travel. There is a demand for the Gospel today and it’s impact has changed nations, such as Nigeria. It takes money to get it there and facilitate its dissemination.

    But you are concerned with personal wealth, men of God having things.

    Proverbs says that prosperity will ruin a fool. Look up what the Bible says a fools is and don’t do that. The prosperity is there for God’s people throughout time and throughout the Word. People who equate poverty and moderate means with Godliness are simply untaught in the scriptures. A lot of people squall about it because they would like to have those things for themselves.

    The assumption that a minister or ministry with wealth, top of the line things, things in general, is grabbing donated money to acquire these things is irresponsible. Prove it. The assumption that they shouldn’t even have them and that it goes against Jesus’ lifestyle and teaching is false, unsupported in scripture. Jesus’ garment was so fine that the Roman soldiers did not want to tear it to divide it up, but cast lots for it. You don’t cast lots over a rag. Jesus had a treasurer. Poor ministers and ministries don’t have a treasurer. He gave to the poor, but he did not call it waste when Mary poured out a very costly perfumed oil on his feet. But Judas, the greedy one, and the Pharisees there got all indignant about it. They still are.

    Money is not wasted on kingdom work, whether it be buildings or other tools of ministry. God blesses his people individually and personally, those with the blessed feet who bring the good news, exceedingly and abundantly. He is like that. Few could keep up with the schedules of these men. They are about kingdom business surpassing a 40-hour work week.

    A lot of people resent the men and women of God, God’s people, being highly prosperous and blessed, having fine things. Again, these things are added to them, not appropriated by them. The world doesn’t like that. They’re the greedy ones. They’re the grabbers. God is not against his people having money; he’s against the money having them. These people are seeking the kingdom of God and things are being added to them. The idea that modest means is holy is a religious idea that has not basis in God’s word. Abuses occur and they are corrected. The law of the spirit of sowing and reaping take care of that. You needn’t worry. Nobody gets away with anything. Nobody, not ever. Their sins come out in this life or the next, usually this one.

    You mention taking the supernatural being out of the equation mentioned above and then mention salvation, that it can’t be purchased. Those conflict.

    Jesus IS here witnessing what is going on. He sent his spirit to the earth when he left. The Holy Ghost knows. He does not gag over his own word. Jesus is coming back in body to set up an earthly kingdom. There is coming a new heaven and a new earth, and these things are not far off. Since Heaven’s streets are paved with gold and the gates are one huge pearl, precious stones are used in foundations, I doubt seriously if he is aghast and appalled at his sent ones having something very fine to drive in, live in and fly in. Fine things are God’s style and poverty and lack do not accurately represent him. The kingdom of God is in the earth. People don’t like to see it in men, but that’s the way God set it up. Jesus was denounced for his claims since he was in the form of a man, had relatives known to them, etc. We shall be richer still, and that accurately represents Heaven’s will and provision. Get over it.

  36. davidblack2 says:

    I had mentioned that I despised liberals. Next on my list are libertarians. I can now add libertarian evangelicals to my list. All share that a similar level of paranoia and see themselves as victims of powerful institutions while even creating their own as a replacement.

    I scanned those unsolicited sermonettes you recently posted. I’m sorry, you wasted your time. I am a 62 year old free thinking Jew who knows from fundamentalist BS when he reads or hears it.

  37. davidblack2 says:

    I should ask how many of you zealots are Ron Paul supporters.

  38. weadread says:

    You err, not knowing the scriptures or the power of God. If you weren’t so ignorant, you’d be in trouble. As it is, you are playing with something that is very much of reality – a living God and his people. If you are a Jew of any Bible orientation at all, you know that what I say of the patriarchs and Israel regarding Godly prosperity is so. Read your Bible like you read your newspaper and it becomes a different book.

  39. davidblack2 says:

    Yep, the very same elitist and superior attitude that liberals always convey.

    The fact is, I am a Jew of personally non-Biblical orientation. My parents rejected organized religion as false following the Holocaust. They still believed in a creative force as I do, but there was instilled within me the power to always question and be skeptical of that creative force. This force is/was was not infallible and not perfect, otherwise, it wouldn’t have allowed six million + innocent Jews to be slaughtered in Europe during WW2. The Judeo-Christian concept of God for me is just a panacea for weak willed people too afraid to stand without fear before the universe. I am not in awe of the size and scope of the universe.

    If I want to read a book of fairy tales, I’ll read the Brothers Grimm.

  40. weadread says:

    For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Romans 10:3

  41. weadread says:

    Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

    20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

    21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

  42. davidblack2 says:

    There is a great, basic contradiction in the teachings of Jesus. Jesus was one of the first great teachers to proclaim the basic principle of individualism — the inviolate sanctity of man’s soul, and the salvation of one’s soul as one’s first concern and highest goal; this means — one’s ego and the integrity of one’s ego. But when it came to the next question, a code of ethics to observe for the salvation of one’s soul — (this means: what must one do in actual practice in order to save one’s soul?) — Jesus (or perhaps His interpreters) gave men a code of altruism, that is, a code which told them that in order to save one’s soul, one must love or help or live for others. This means, the subordination of one’s soul (or ego) to the wishes, desires or needs of others, which means the subordination of one’s soul to the souls of others.

    This is a contradiction that cannot be resolved. This is why men have never succeeded in applying Christianity in practice, while they have preached it in theory for two thousand years. The reason of their failure was not men’s natural depravity or hypocrisy, which is the superficial (and vicious) explanation usually given. The reason is that a contradiction cannot be made to work. That is why the history of Christianity has been a continuous civil war — both literally (between sects and nations), and spiritually (within each man’s soul).

    Ayn Rand (1947)

  43. weadread says:

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    The spirit of man comes alive when one confesses Jesus as their savior, becomes born again. There is a regeneration. The Holy Spirit comes in. It is a definite experience with noticeable change. But, there is another process mentioned below.

    1Thess. 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Man is a three-part being: spirit, soul and body. The spirit is born again when Jesus is confessed as Lord. There is a real change. But the soul of man, made up of the mind, will and emotions must be renewed. Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; The body must be trained. There are scriptures concerning all of these. Paul taught a lot on this.

    The tug of war is very real, but it is not a tug of war to get saved as far as eternal destiny is concerned. When the Holy Spirit comes in at the point of receiving Jesus as Lord, that spirit comes alive and you are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, going to Heaven. The living out of the life is why we need the New Testament, especially the letters. That part is written to born-again people who need to begin to renew their minds and begin to find out how to live the new life. That is progressive. That growth is up to the application of the believer of the word of God. That growth never stops.
    Being born again happens in an instant and gives the power to begin the changes needed for the new life. The letters speak of the flesh, the outer man – the body and the unrenewed mind. They have to be dealt with and put in subjection. The power is available to do that.

    Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
    19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
    20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
    21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
    22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
    24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
    25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    It goes on and is dealt with throughout the New Testament. There is a struggle between the spirit and the soul, the outer man and the inner man. But as believers grow in Christ, they overcome that by appreciable degrees and get freer and freer of that struggle. Grace – the power of God – is available to help with all of that process. Just as a baby is born in the natural, comes to life, he must grow up from there. He has life inside, but his development is ongoing.

    Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: – and following develops this.

    Being born again in order to receive Jesus as Lord, have the Holy Spirit come in, is instantaneous and in the spirit of a man, the inner man, the heart (another word used for the spirit of man in the bible). The growth, renewal and development of the mind in conformity with living after Jesus is a process, along with getting the body in line. Working out your salvation as mentioned in scripture refers to that process. This does not contradict the above scripture in Ephesians or others which describe the new birth. They are two different areas. Going to Heaven is assured with the new birth (unless one deliberately renounces the Lord Jesus), but the growth from babies being fed on milk and men feeding on meat is a process.

  44. davidblack2 says:

    Drop Kick Me, Jesus
    by Bobby Bare

    (Chorus)
    Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life
    End over end, neither left nor to right
    Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights
    Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life

    Make me, oh make me, Lord more than I am
    Make me a piece in your master game plan
    Free from the earthly temptations below
    I’ve got the will, Lord if you’ve got the toe

    (Chorus)

    Bring on the brothers who’ve gone on before
    And all of the sisters who’ve knocked on your door
    All the departed dear loved ones of mine
    Stick them up front in the offensive line

    (Chorus 2x)

    Oh, drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life

  45. weadread says:

    I have made this too wordy and complicated. The relationship with Jesus makes everything come together. But it is not a mental relationship. With all due respect to the sincerity of the woman you have quoted, I feel she does not understand the new birth. That is the power in the engine, the spirit of man, that works the outer changes. When you experience this, you know the difference. So many things come together immediately. Things that you have tried to understand and reason out become clear. The scriptures are a dead letter, one verse says, without the Holy Spirit. He is the one who turns on the light and you begin to see where things are located and how they fit together. You have to be born again. As fine as the brain and the mind are, they are not how we contact God and the things of God. As for a continuous civil war, the Holy Spirit brings peace, wonderful peace. There are trials and things to overcome, but that inner rest is always a resource.

  46. reginalewis says:

    To weadread:

    Your posts are well written and state Truth. The problem is that you are “casting your pearls before swine”. One requires “ears to hear”.

  47. davidblack2 says:

    My friend, the dirty little secret about life is that you and I are ending up the same way … as worm food, nothing more, nothing less.

    You’ve just let that carrot of “everlasting life” dangled in front of your nose persuade you from facing the contradiction mentioned in Rand’s letter.

    Life still has great meaning without a promise of an afterlife.

  48. weadread says:

    You’ve come too late. I’ve lived 21 years not knowing Jesus and not having him on the inside and over 21 years since of knowing him and having him on the inside. There is a world of difference. I would never go back. His claims have proven true over and over in every respect. You are arguing with success. How can this one woman know whether or not all Christians live up to the teachings of Jesus? She cannot. She errs in her representation of how man is saved. It is not from his own works. Man is saved by believing on the finished work of Calvary, what Jesus did, not what he does. All he does is to accept the sacrifice of Jesus in his behalf. It is too simple for a lot of people. It seems too good to be true, but it is true. Living out the life of Jesus after that is done by the strength that God supplies. Sorry. There are too many changed people walking around, including myself. Too many new creatures with the living testimony of changed lives.

    You mention the afterlife seemingly with the Heavenly side in mind. There is another side of afterlife. Keep in mind that this relates to unending eternity. Are you prepared for the eventuality, even remote possibility of there being an unending eternity in Hell? Or, have you let the myth of self-containment delude you into believing yourself above the claims of the Bible, a phenomenally preserved and documented book? Science and archeology have repeatedly proven its places, people, events and teachings.

    Being your own God is pretty slippery business, especially the part about being right about everything without the omniscience to back it up.

  49. davidblack2 says:

    How could Rand have known? Rand knew because she was a brilliant woman, even more brilliant that most of us put together.

    That’s how she was able to write a novel that ranks up there with the holy bible on the most influential fiction books in Western literature.

  50. davidblack2 says:

    Am I ready for hell? Guess what, hell is right here on earth, pal.

    I guess you’ve never been to India when it’s 100+ degrees.

  51. weadread says:

    Black, that is all absurd and you know it. I want to correct something I put from earlier – It is not that Jesus comes in when one is born again, but his spirit. He is at the right hand of the father right now. His spirit is what comes in when one makes him their lord. And, everlasting life comes right along. We are all in eternity right now, because man is an eternal spirit. A spirit cannot die. It is eternal. When your body dies, your spirit comes into the hands of whomever is your God. Man is not sovereign. Forget that. It doesn’t exist. Enter the devil. Actually, he’s been there all along. This will probably draw a new round of scoffing from you, but so what. When a person dies physically, they draw the judgment of their God. If one has not made Jesus their lord, does not have his life inside them, they go with the god of this world, Satan. Tough? Bible fact, and the Bible is right. It is God’s inspired word and He is right. The thing is, he gives everyone the chance to come to him, over and over he draws them. If a person refuses him, they have chosen elsewhere.

    A lot of questions get answered when you put Jesus in charge, make him your lord. Your issues about the Holocaust, this Rand woman’s thing (actually, I think that matter is very simple and not at all impressive) and a host of others. God requires faith, the step of faith. Now, we don’t like that. We want to see it all ahead, all laid out, but he won’t accommodate that in the natural, sense realm, because that is not his venue. Satan is the god of this world system. God is a spirit and he works in that realm. He uses people and natural things, but his convincing is a matter of the heart – no less real. He can persuade and demonstrate himself quite effectively to a person’s heart and consciousness. It’s foolish to hold out for all questions to be answered. We are not ready for the answers to a lot of them. It requires some growth to understand them. A three year old can ask questions they cannot understand when answered. They need to grow some before they can comprehend the answers to their questions. It is so good to be in the Father’s hands, to be secure in him, and to have his life inside. Weak and using a crutch, etc.? It is the only place of strength and security, because the Father God of Heaven is love and he is good, all arguments to the contrary notwithstanding. Without being in him, one is a leaf in the wind with his puny little intellect to hold onto. Like some very small tinhorn dictator, pounding on a table with his assertions in the face of the rest of the nations and armies, etc. Squeak, squeak. One should be smarter than that.

  52. davidblack2 says:

    Keep drinking that kool aid, my friend, and keep trying to sell that bill of goods. I’m sure you’ll be successful in finding a few people who will fall for your pitch.

    Have you ever tried selling Amway? Just wondering.

  53. felixlucid says:

    Black, you raised the accusation of my belief system being fragile. Yet despite your claimed reliance upon the scientific method, the only support to your hypothesis was evidence created by your own imagination. Let us instead discuss reality and cast down imaginations. As I said in the previous post about kool-aid drinkers: “Before you know it, you desperately crave another cup and eventually another flavor. Soon enough, you start creating your own recipes in a vain attempt to achieve a measure of satisfaction.” Seems your beloved mind offered you the rhetorical explanation that if I were to remove the supernatural from my supernaturally based belief system then it would no longer have a foundation. Truth is, if the “super” were to be removed from the equation I’d be left solely with the “natural” as a foundation, would I not? Instead of limiting this debate to the realm of constantly re-framing the question of, “How do you know that you know what you know anyways?” Why not practically explain how your supernaturally void model of reality is any more sound than the Judeo-Christian concept. You say, “God for me is just a panacea for weak willed people too afraid to stand without fear before the universe.” and to that I say, thank God that I do not serve your god. You say, “I am not in awe of the size and scope of the universe.” and to that I say.. of course you’re not in awe, because when you look out at this great and majestic universe all you actually end up seeing is a reflection of your own self. I think you may be forgetting that the map is not the territory.

  54. weadread says:

    You are right about one thing – I am your friend to tell you these things.

    Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    A simple decision and humble prayer of committal to God can remedy the later state. If you’ve ever lied or stolen or broken any commandment, you stand condemned. Why should God let you into his heaven? Only by the blood of Jesus.

    And, that ‘s new wine I’m drinking.

  55. felixlucid says:

    One more thing Mr. Tim Leary; you seemed very impressed by Rand’s ability to build contradictions in written communications and I see you employing the same approach to debating on this Blog. However, looks to me as if no one is trying to contradict you on this forum but are instead presenting you with new layers of information regarding the Christian perspective of existence that you speak against with such authority. To speak with authority against something is to assume a full-understanding of that thing you speak against. Christians on this board are helping promote and develop your supposed understanding of Christianity, yet you deny this gracious gift. Instead of allowing this information into your internal representation of reality, you bark, “You sound like the liberals I despise. They, too, abide by specious and emotionally charged dogma and will smear anyone that attempts to usurp it or its power..” One could clearly presume from the above statement that the reason why you despise what we’re sharing with you is because you feel that accepting it may usurp you or your power. If you want to play God, go have a lucid dream.

  56. weadread says:

    Know what, felix, I think Black is taking in more than his bluster would seem to indicate. The word is a powerful seed and I think more has gotten into him than he will admit. He has the information and knows what to do. I think he knows his need for it. Let’s gang up on him in prayer, being the laborers across his path, praying for the Holy Spirit to continue to draw him and to bind the forces of darkness blinding his eyes. I think he is actually smarter than to hold out against the love of God which we will be praying will manifest to him. I am much more impressed with God’s ability and reality than his weak attempts at resisting it.

  57. davidblack2 says:

    felixlucid: you can’t even read or extrapolate properly. I have no problem with a belief in a creative force in the universe. I believe it exists and it ends there. No dancing, no singing, just an intellectual acknowledgment and I move on. It’s what you want to understand about me because you evangelicals have hair trigger reactions to criticism as if you are beyond being criticized.

    This is where you fail repeatedly. The animus against organized people is motivated by people like you. The world would get along with fundamentalists if they just the shut the hell up and kept to themselves. You people are exactly the same as Muslim fundamentalists, except you don’t fly planes into skyscrapers, thankfully.

    What I do have a problem with is organized religion, the people that lead it, and the suckers they fleece for millions of dollars and for what? Nothing.

    Again, you can achieve salvation privately in your own with prayer and reading scripture if that’s what you need. There no need for middle man. get it? There’s no need to line the pockets of creeps like Copeland, Benny Hinn, James Dobson, et al.

    I have my family to love and they love me. What else would I need? Nothing. There also has to be physical contact for love to work. There’s no physical contact with a supernatural being. I can’t hug and kiss a concept. See how ridiculous you people sound?

    You evangelicals need more that everyone else. It speaks of greed to me, emotional greed. Love from your family isn’t enough. Why, I have no idea. Maybe your parents didn’t love you enough and you’re very needy emotionally. You are very emotionally disturbed people, if only for giving your money away to salesmen in expensive suits holding bibles up on TV.

    Pray all you want for me. Pray until you choke on it, for all I care. I certainly wouldn’t lift a finger for you, that’s for sure.

  58. davidblack2 says:

    “The animus against organized people is motivated by people like you.”

    It should read “the animus toward organized religion …”

    I’m used to blogs with post edit features.

    Really, I need people like you and what you have to sell like I need a root canal.

    That’s another problem with you people. YOU NEVER STOP SELLING!

    Go sell Amway if you have so much excess time and energy. Stop trying to save the world. Save yourselves and your own flesh and blood family members.

  59. tgordon42 says:

    black2, I find your words very funny! You make me laugh just reading what you have to say. Reminds me of someone else I know. It is obvious that you are vey knowledgable concerning the issues that you discuss or make mention of in this blog. Just curious, if you have ever been involved with the Amway Corporation or the people who sell amway products? It amazes me how that particular company always comes up when there is a discussion about christians or the bible.

    Also, on April 29, you mentioned the U S Tax Code and US Law, all in the same breath. I am having difficulty finding the law that authorizes the IRS to be the collector of any Taxes. If you have found that Law, I would really appreciate knowing where I can get a copy of it.

    I have been doing a lot of research over the past year and have found out some things that I had no idea was taking place in this country. Our Bill of Rights and the Constitution that are the supreme law of this land, is being stripped away by the very people who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constituion.

    All of our Freedoms are at stake here. So no matter where your heart and mind are, if we do not come together to fight these losses, in the not too distant future, we will not be having this conversation. This has to do with reality in the here and now.

  60. davidblack2 says:

    TGordon42: I guess you flunked civics class.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxing_and_Spending_Clause

    It’s part of the Constitution you seem to revere so much. What a pity you don’t know what’s in it.

    Sorry, I don’t know what “freedoms loss” you are referring to. I have not experienced any such loss. I can do the same things today I could do prior to 9/11. I believe this is all part of your paranoid losertarian fantasy. This is exactly the kind of insane nonsense that has fuled that resoundingly successful Ron Paul campaign which has amassed what? 14 delegates? Wow, what a mandate!

    http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com

  61. davidblack2 says:

    felixlucid; I have my own views on a creative force in the universe. I believe there is one but it ends there. However, I bow down to nothing or no one. I am a god unto myself and shall always remain. My mind is my church. I’ve done very well in 62 years of life being in control of my own destiny. I could care less what happens to my lifeless corpse when I’ve assumed room temperature and become worm food. That realization doesn’t make me fearful like it does people like you, so I don’t have to believe myths about an afterlife.

    I’ve never needed crutches or panaceas to survive. I fully acknowledge and embrace the horror and hell of this world because I know I can prevail over it through personal strength and resolve. I’ve personally witnessed life and death up close and survived and that’s what informs my life view … survival and self-preservation at most any cost within the limits of the laws of my country. The outcome justifies the deed. Just look at my avatar, that should tell you everything, that is, if you can deduce who is in the picture.

    Gift? Forget it. I never accept charity from strangers.

    http://mmetdavidblack.blogspot.com

  62. davidblack2 says:

    correction:

    http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com

    For those taking sides with Senator Obama’s view of the world, I say that another of my beliefs about evangelicals has been proven. You don’t think like true conservatives. If you did, you’d be vilifying a racist liberal panderer like Obama and everything he stands for, in additional to that foul cretin Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

  63. goliathwhite says:

    Sounds like the worms are already eating you, Black.

    Still amused, tgordon?

  64. robertpatrickyoungblood says:

    I LOVE THE COPELANDS THEY ARE DOING THE LORDS WORK NOTHING MORE TO BE SAID MAY GOD KEEP BLESSING THEM.
    ROBERT YOUNGBLOOD

  65. […] While fully 16,000 corporations operate their own aircraft and 60,000 more have part ownerships as well as leases, we are now learning that Republican Senator Charles Grassley’s investigation of six Pentecostal Ministries was prompted by the fact that they owned private jets. He has reportedly asked the six Pentecostal ministries to give him every credit card receipt for the last five years. He has asked at least one of the ministries to give him the name of every musician or speaker who has ever stood in his pulpit in the last forty years. But the jets, we are told, were the straws that broke the camel’s back, or the donkey’s back, and provoked the investigation, for the Senator insists that true Christians should ride donkey’s as Jesus did when he entered Jerusalem. (Google for the Senator’s live comments.) Grassley […]

  66. 2edgedsword2 says:

    to davidblack2:

    You claim here that the Bible is a book of fairy tales, yet on another page provide the scriptures that establish the borders of Israel. The rest of the Israel scriptures are true as well. The fact that Israel is a nation again, back in her own land and strengthened is entirely due to God’s covenant keeping, not Israel’s, for she has been a continuous covenant breaker. The captivities, the occupations, the Holocaust, the absence of lasting peace – all judgments coming down for thousands of years of idolatry and treachery. Throughout her history, Israel has remained a stiff-necked people, thumbing her nose at God, failing to give him his place. You blatantly establish yourself in that position. God has a high plan for Israel, but it requires turning. Satan has a plan as well, requiring no resistance. Just keep tracking right along. He has you well in tow.

  67. weadread says:

    Black claims loyalty to America, yet is anti-American in spirit – this openly degrading the things that made America strong – giving, reaching out, regard and respect for others, inherent goodness and decency. That is not being free – but a freeloader on the liberty bought and preserved by others.

  68. goliathwhite says:

    Black, you’re a gut full of vitriol going somewhere to spew. Yours is the spirit of Islam – hating, godless, tearing down. Ok, looked at your demonic avatar on your site. So noted, along with the devil’s use of your fetid breath to foul every internet site you visit. Don’t think your league with him gives you sovereignty or immunity. He doesn’t have them to give. He uses up his best servants, his most zealous terrorists, haters and fowlers, and when he is through with them, rewards them with destruction and eternal death.

  69. 2edgedsword2 says:

    Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

    But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

    But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

    Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

    But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.
    Romans 2:4-11

  70. 2edgedsword2 says:

    Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

  71. davidblack2 says:

    Freeloader? Hardly! I pay my local, state, and federal taxes every year. I probably pay more than any of those salvation quacks you subordinate your life to.

    There is no law saying that any American is obligated to give more to their country unless drafted into the military.

    No one is entitled to a second of my time. I live entirely for my own sake.

    Sorry, being a touchy feely do-gooder is not mandated by any US laws I know of, unless you know differently?

    You don’t even know who is in the avatar, do you? Why am I not surprised?

  72. davidblack2 says:

    Wow, goliath, it seems you’ve swallowed a whole vat of kool aid, based on that crazed rant about another mythical being you people love to get your knickers in a twist over.

  73. 2edgedsword2 says:

    Ps 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    Ps 49:10 For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.

    Ps 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

    Ps 92:6 A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this.
    Pr 7:22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;

    Pr 10:8 The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.

    Pr 10:10 He that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall.

    Pr 10:18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.

  74. 2edgedsword2 says:

    Ps 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

    Ps 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

    Ps 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

    Ps 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

    Ps 3:7 Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly.

  75. goliathwhite says:

    Isaih 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

  76. goliathwhite says:

    Hosea 7:13 Woe unto them! for they have fled from me: destruction unto them! because they have transgressed against me: though I have redeemed them, yet they have spoken lies against me.

  77. 2edgedsword2 says:

    Deut. 9:7 Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the LORD thy God to wrath in the wilderness: from the day that thou didst depart out of the land of Egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the LORD.

    Deut. 9:24 Ye have been rebellious against the LORD from the day that I knew you.

  78. 2edgedsword2 says:

    Ps 66:7 He ruleth by his power for ever; his eyes behold the nations: let not the rebellious exalt themselves. Selah

  79. goliathwhite says:

    Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:

  80. 2edgedsword2 says:

    Ezekiel 2:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day.

  81. goliathwhite says:

    You are whistling in the dark, and the night will swallow your song;
    You can gamble if you want to, but you are betting your life that he’s wrong.

  82. davidblack2 says:

    Take away your bibles and you people have nothing to say, because you can’t think or act on your own. You need a single book to provide a basis for every thought or utterance you make.

    But as long as you can lull yourselves into that false sense of security provided by that book, then the powerbrokers like KCM selling salvation for a price have nothing to worry about.

  83. goliathwhite says:

    I forgive you.

  84. 2edgedsword2 says:

    Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ Matthew 4:4

  85. atalhea says:

    I have an idea: Lest the seemingly endless bantering continue between DB and the rest of civilization go on ad nauseam; let us who know the Holy Spirit intercede for him, requesting that he be granted the ‘peace that passes all understanding’ before he talks himself into an eternity separate from God.

    I tried to sooth his negative zeal on a one-to-one basis, but alas, had to block his email address!

    I think it’s time for corporate prayer here, folks!

    ATALHEA (acronym)
    And They All Lived Happily Ever After

  86. weadread says:

    Judge between your servants, repaying the guilty by bringing down on his own head what he has done. Declare the innocent not guilty and so establish his innocence.
    2 Chronicles 6:23

  87. davidblack2 says:

    here are some facts:

    Al Freeman, aka ATALHEA, declared his exasperation with me in a recent email featuring a petulant “this is my last communication with you!” send off.

    However, Al has returned in full force, buoyed by the collective support of his fellow travellers on this message board to recite even more pre-programmed talking points straight out of the Elmer Gantry playbook.

    Pretty soon, you guys will have the whole bible quoted with no apparent change in my demeanor.

    Hmmm, now why do you think that is?

    Fellas, you can recite all the scripture you want and speak in as many tongues as you wish while you hold those snakes in your hands. You can pray until the cows come home. But the fact remains, I won’t be cowed or impressed.

    I’m the type of person that if pressed to conform to anyone’s desires, I go futher in the opposite direction.

    I never compromise. I march to the beat of one drummer, and that’s ME. That independence is what blows your circuits. You can’t fathom that a human being could be so defiant and reject subordinating themselves to a higher power.

    Like I’ve said elsewhere, I acknowledge that there are higher powers in the universe that dwarf puny humans. Yet, I will not, under any circumstances, be anyone’s or anything’s servant. I don’t care how much more powerful it may be compared to myself.

    I can’t make it any clearer than that.

  88. 2edgedsword2 says:

    Gotta’ serve somebody – even Dillon knew that. If God be God, then serve him.

  89. atalhea says:

    Pray!

  90. davidblack2 says:

    “Gotta’ serve somebody – even Dillon knew that. If God be God, then serve him.”

    Dillon (sic)?

    John Lennon wrote a clever response to that song called “Serve Yourself”

  91. weadread says:

    Letter sent on May 2, 2008 to Senator Grassley by a wide range of ministries:

    United States Congress
    U.S. Capitol
    Washington, DC 20002

    May 2, 2008

    Dear Senate Finance Committee Member:

    We write respectfully to let you know of our concerns about the Senate Finance Committee’s investigation into the finances of several churches, all of which share the same branch of evangelicalism, and all of which promote socially conservative public policy positions such as support for the traditional definition of marriage.

    While we recognize that some evangelical teachings and socially conservative policy positions are controversial, and that these churches have been the subject of sensational investigative journalism, we are nonetheless concerned that this would possibly justify an investigation outside the normal confines of the Internal Revenue Service and established administrative and judicial procedures.

    Congress passed the Church Audit Procedures Act in 1984 specifically to discourage politically driven audits of churches. The Act prevents the Internal Revenue Service from initiating an investigation into a church’s finances unless a “high level Treasury official” concludes that there is reasonable cause for such an investigation. The Act also protects a church under investigation from politically motivated leaks during the course of the examination.

    We are unaware of any finding by a high-level Treasury Department official that there is reasonable cause to open an investigation of any of these ministries.
    We are concerned that the Senate Finance Committee may be setting a dangerous precedent that may be difficult to reverse. For one thing, controversy will always be a part of religious teaching. And religious controversy is something the media will inevitably strive to exploit, since the media feed on controversy and have demonstrated a bias against evangelical Christians. The Committee’s reliance on media reports in targeting subjects for its investigation would therefore only seem to reinforce this unfortunate bias, however unwittingly.

    We cannot recall instances in the past where a congressional committee has targeted major ministries under threat of subpoena. The ministries have been asked to produce financial records and internal documents in what appears to be an exercise in disproving their alleged guilt.

    Congress has a legitimate role to play in oversight of our laws, including tax laws governing churches. And ministries have the obligation to be transparent in their financial accounting. But the targeting of specific ministries by a congressional committee would seem to intrude on the free exercise of religion guaranteed under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. We believe this is why churches are properly exempt from taxation in the first place — to prevent governments from using their power to tax as a way to limit the free exercise of religion.

    We respectfully ask that investigations into the finances of specific ministries be left with the Internal Revenue Service, overseen and approved by a Treasury Department official who has affirmed that there is reasonable cause for such an investigation, in accordance with the Church Audit Procedures Act.

    Signed,
    Paul Weyrich, Chairman, Coalitions for America
    Donald E. Wildmon, Founder and Chairman, American Family Association
    Ken Blackwell, Chairman, Coalition for a Conservative Majority
    William Murray, Chairman, Religious Freedom Coalition
    Rev. Bill Owens, President, Coalition of African American Pastors
    Victoria Cobb, President, The Family Foundation of Virginia
    Dr. Gary Cass, Chairman/CEO, Christian Anti-Defamation Commission
    Pastor Craig Polston, Kingdom Baptist Church, Fredericksburg, Virginia
    Pastor Bob Emrich, The Maine Jeremiah Project, Emmanuel Bible Baptist Church
    Dr. Carl Herbster, President, AdvanceUSA
    Anthony Verdugo, Christian Family Coalition
    Deal W. Hudson, Director, InsideCatholic.com
    Rev. Rick Scarborough, President, Vision America
    Star Parker, President, Coalition on Urban Renewal and Education
    Colin Hanna, President, Pennsylvania Pastors Network
    Dr. Danny Forshee, Pastor, First Baptist Church, Lavaca, Arkansas
    Sadie Fields, State Chairman, Georgia Christian Alliance
    Pastor Jack Knapp, Sandston, Virginia
    Larry Cirignano, Founder, CatholicVote
    James Martin, President, 60 Plus
    George Landrith, President, Frontiers of Freedom
    Mathew Staver, Dean and Professor of Law, Liberty University School of Law
    Rev. Rob Schenck, National Clergy Council

  92. davidblack2 says:

    Interestingly, I consider myself a social conservative that unilaterally supports the traditional definition of marriage between a man and a woman.

    I am pleased to note that no one that signed that letter is declaring that Congress has no Constitutional right to conduct such an investigation.

    Posters to my own blog who label themselves evangelicals believe otherwise. I told them they were wrong but they refuse to believe me.

    I don’t understand why anyone would think that conducting investigations into possible crime is a violation of their freedom of religion.

    Please explain to me how conducting an investigation into KCM is preventing them or anyone from praying, reading their bible, or having a conversation with God.

  93. goliathwhite says:

    WR, thank you so much for sharing that letter. It is great. Unity in spite of diversity. I love it. Eyes open. Action taken. I am so thankful for this.

  94. weadread says:

    You are welcome. See believersstandunited.com; note the links at the bottom.

  95. davidblack2 says:

    I thought so. The Senate investigation is not abridging anyone’s rights or ability to worship their God.

    It’s just another exercise in putting charlatans in expensive suits in the investigative crosshairs. If their resumes listed CEO of ENNRON instead of CEO of KCM, you’d be cheering, not condemning the Senate’s efforts.

  96. felixlucid says:

    Wead; I received the free believer’s stand united dvd from KCM a few days ago and thoroughly enjoyed your articulation of the present challenges we’re facing in these times. Though d-black viewed my purposely out-of-context extrapolation of his words as a mark of unintelligence, I was attempting to demonstrate the ease with which content could be re-framed with an erroneous context and still appear cohesive. What a nasty and manipulative mode of attack; but by the grace of God we shall overcome. As much as people may try to build a false context around the ministries of the modern day pentecostal church, today’s extravagant outpouring of the holy spirit cannot be suppressed. Praise the lord!

  97. felixlucid says:

    The reason why we sow into ministries such as KCM, is because we put our faith in the word of God and trust Him to deliver on His promises. To the world, it may seem nonsensical to view the act of giving as a means of entering into prosperity and wealth– but in God’s economy, “Give and it shall be Given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over.” Sow blessings into the life of others! And your heavenly father will bless you a hundred fold. Put yourself on top of a hierarchy and place self-importance over the well-being of your brethren? And you’re out of God’s grace and under the curse. Deny the bible all you want, but take a moment to consider the logic of this: In order to Give a thing you must Have a thing to give. So by giving, even when you gave little, you’re taking a powerful action of faith and you’re completely destroying the foundation of all subconscious beliefs which are supporting “not having”. The mind is logical and seeks order above all things. For example, if an aggressively independent-spirited cigarette smoker reveals to you that he’s always been completely against the idea of being controlled by any outside forces, then your ability to illustrate to him the many ways that tobacco companies are controlling his mind and his life through smoking.. can illustrate to him that being a smoker is completely inconsistent with his character. Rather than authoritatively beating into his head the harmful effects of smoking (which he’s likely more than aware of anyways), simply demonstrating to him that he can’t continue to be a smoker and still claim to be this “anti-authority” rebellious spirit without being a fraud to his own name. The many deeply held values and beliefs that he possesses, which are anti-thesis to being a cigarette smoker, are the only things potent enough to collapse the mental strong-hold of nicotine addiction. After all, bringing this inconsistency to his attention leaves him one logical option: coming to the realization that he was never REALLY a smoker to begin with. So making the commitment of giving even when you have little or nothing to give, begins to create an inconsistency with the mental strong-hold of poverty and lack that you may possess in your subconscious. With diligence, your mind is going to have no choice but to become consistent with your new conscious activity. Personally, I strive to completely absorb all of God’s promises into my beliefs and values so that ultimately, it would be completely inconsistent for me to be anything less than what He said I was: a god in his image. Imagine a country filled with believers who finally realize and accept the reality of their own divinity as joint-heirs with Christ and sons of the living God! Imagine a world where everyone truly believed on a deep level that they could do ALL things through Christ who strengthens them! There’d be no place for greedy control-freak elites in such a world as each citizen would be bountifully empowered by the Light of God Himself. No wonder why Christianity is so distorted, they’re terrified of it.

  98. felixlucid says:

    I respect you Black.. after-all, you’re my elder and I’m a 22 year old college kid. But to say that the millions of people who sow money into the Church are somehow in the wrong is a very disagreeable statement. Don’t you see that we WANT our ministers and pastors to be wealthy and prosperous? They represent the God we serve. And don’t you realize that if the substance of their teachings didn’t work, the law of supply and demand would have snuffed them out a long time ago? But they do. Copeland has a Jet and I’m getting mines the same way he did, by calling things that are not as though they were until they came to be. Anyone else?

  99. weadread says:

    Hello felix – Thank you for your comment. If I may suggest, as for Black, he likes the track he runs on and just comes here to spread contempt. Don’t let him bait you. We’re in agreement to communicate on a higher level concerning him. In this context, he’s best ignored.

  100. davidblack2 says:

    “Don’t you see that we WANT our ministers and pastors to be wealthy and prosperous?”

    It makes no logical sense to donate money to strangers so they can be better off financially and materially than you.

    “They represent the God we serve.”

    Why can’t you just represent yourself without any money changing hands? Why the need for a middleman?

    “And don’t you realize that if the substance of their teachings didn’t work, the law of supply and demand would have snuffed them out a long time ago?”

    Everything always works without fail when blind faith is your guide.

  101. weadread says:

    http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=26970

    Christianity Today carries similar articles, one entitled “Oversight Overstep.” A Baptist Press article registers chill over elements of the “investigation.”

    There are others.

  102. davidblack2 says:

    Weadread: allow me to inject more reality into your fairy tale world:

    Everyone, including you and the other evangelical zealots here, follows their own track, except mine is built upon independent thought and self-interest.

    Independent thought, now there’s a concept!

    Spread contempt? Hardly. I’d like to empower individuals to be free thinkers and skeptics.

  103. goliathwhite says:

    Thanks for the info, Wead.

  104. davidblack2 says:

    Yes, felixlucid, imagine a world of mindless automatons who can’t think for themselves who have distilled their whole lives down around the text of one single book.

    I’d rather be dead and buried than live such a stultifying existence that never challenges or questions anything.

  105. jimaustin1 says:

    I Praise God for ministries like these six ministries that are preaching and teaching the true word of God.
    Several years ago (over 20) the Lord revealed things to me that HIS children should not ever live in poverty.
    The same devil then is the same devil now, to come and attack (and mostly by other christians that do not know any better and being decieved themselves by the devil) and say…”how dare you think that way, who do you think you are”?

  106. jimaustin1 says:

    Well….
    we are the kids of the Most High God who happens to own the cattle on a thousand hills, all the gold and silver are HIS, we are HIS most favorite, the apple of HIS eye, HE loves us with an everlasting love (never ends) and HE has set our feet on wealthy land.
    We have an inheritance that is out of this world.
    Anyone that calls on the name of Jesus can have this too!

  107. davidblack2 says:

    In lieu of independent thought, simply repeat dogmatic scripture over and over ad nauseam.

  108. enchiladada says:

    who’s the drip?

  109. davidblack2 says:

    Who else but you and anyone who can’t think beyond the parameter of one little book.

  110. goliathwhite says:

    you trample on what is precious to us
    thrusting it on us here and elsewhere
    there’s no legitimate platform for this

  111. davidblack2 says:

    If your faith is so strong and your God is so invincible, you should be able to withstand anything and come out smiling.

  112. goliathwhite says:

    There is more to us and these concerns than we can represent here.
    I hope there is more to you and yours than what you represent here.

    We have left you alone as to your personal convictions on God and the things of God.
    Please leave us alone as to ours.

    If you just wish to warn us against being the supreme suckers you take us for, there might be a more effective way to go about it. It would involve having more knowledge of the subject and more information as to our overall participation.

  113. davidblack2 says:

    The only effective way I know of dealing with any subject is head-on like a charging freight train.

    If you want me to leave you alone, then don’t post to public forums. It’s that simple.

  114. enchiladada says:

    what would you know about being effective, chump

  115. davidblack2 says:

    I know how to be effective without having to resort to quoting the same book of scripture ad nauseam all my life.

    I know not to give my heard earned money away to charlatans on TV stealing in the name of God.

    Try thinking for yourself for once in your life instead of like a lemming.

  116. enchiladada says:

    hypocrite

  117. enchiladada says:

    “If I want to read a book of fairy tales, I’ll read the Brothers Grimm.”

    davidblack2 Says:
    February 9, 2008 at 7:46 pm

    Scripture that verifies Israel’s claim to its land:

    Genesis 15:18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates–”
    Genesis 35:10-12 God said to him, “Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel.” So he named him Israel. And God said to him, “I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body. The land I gave to Abraham and Isaac I also give to you, and I will give this land to your descendants after you.”
    Deuteronomy 34:4 “This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, ‘I will give it to your offspring’”
    2 Chronicles 6:5-6 ‘Since the day that I brought My people from the land of Egypt, I did not choose a city out of all the tribes of Israel in which to build a house that My name might be there, nor did I choose any man for a leader over My people Israel; but I have chosen Jerusalem that My name might be there, and I have chosen David to be over My people Israel.’

  118. davidblack2 says:

    Yes, I was quoting old testament scripture that serves as the founders of Israel’s justification to establish their homeland in what was once ancient Judea.

    So what’s the problem here? I can only quote text that I 100% believe in?

  119. enchiladada says:

    cherrypicking

  120. davidblack2 says:

    Sorry, pal, you’re grabbing at straws. I never said I believed in biblical law as a basis for Israeli occupation. I believe its basis should rely on need and record of achievement. Jews deserve a homeland, plain and simple.

  121. enchiladada says:

    confused hypocrite

  122. Black David says:

    “confused hypocrite”

  123. Black David says:

    “confused hypocrite”

    (yawn)

  124. halcyon2 says:

    Typical Black – when trounced, waits a week or so after last poster quits checking and adds some ort, just to get the last word.

    Notice enchil. caught you on a Ron Paul forum – thus the quote above –
    Took quite a trouncing over there as well. Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

    Now folks, come back in about a week and there will be some “saving face” blip from old Blackie …. but don’t expect anything of substance — but by now, you know not to.

  125. Black David says:

    Trounced by whom? A bunch of religious yahoos and LOSERtarians?

    How’s that Ron Paul campaign going with your big 14 delegates?

    You can’t demand substance from others when you don’t possess any of your own. Your “revolution” is a mirage and a refuge for misfits, freaks, and paranoid nutcases.

    Your anti-Semitism is also duly noted. I know you despise Israel and the way the US has been sending billions to her for the last sixty years. Just admit it.

  126. halcyon2 says:

    wrong again

  127. halcyon2 says:

    blip

  128. bwt says:

    These guys got a clean bill of health from the IRS? What was going on over at ORU? Wasn’t Copeland on the Board of Regents, along with Benny Hinn. These guys have gotten a pass for way to long.

  129. prosperity7777 says:

    This is a clear case of Grassley abusing his position of power by perrsecuting faiths with which he disagrees. He should be deeply ashamed.

  130. Black David says:

    Why is it when an evangelical is investigated it’s automatically “persecution” and an example of an abuse of power?

    Evangelicals are NOT special or exempt from scrutiny.

  131. aarondm says:

    For the Senator to try and legislate what is moral to a church is not only wrong, it is simply not what he is paid to do. I hope the voters that elected him pay close attention to this!

    A church that obtains its money legally from willing donars, just like any ministry should be allowed to do anything it wants with that money.

    If those churches want to buy 5,000,000 blue lawn gnomes and put them in a big circle on land they paid five times to much for.. they should have every right.. and the government has no right to tell them otherwise!

    These ministries are being punished for being to successful!

  132. Black David says:

    aarondm, you really are clueless, do you know that?

    Congress, as a lower court, has the right to investigate possible tax law violations and prosecute guilty parties.

    When will you evangelicals stop believing your leaders are immune from scrutiny?

    When will you evangelicals stop believing that your right to pray and receive salvation is being compromised by such Congressional investigations?

    Tell me how an investigation into Kenneth Copeland’s affairs are interfering with your personal relationship with God?

    Why do you need a Kenneth Copeland to have that relationship with God?

    I was always taught is that all you need is a Bible to read.

  133. Black David says:

    CORRECTION: not only a Bible, but FAITH.

    No one on earth can take those away, right?

  134. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Where did you get the idea that Congress is a lower Court? Have you ever heard the phrase Separation of Powers? Please point to the part of the Constitution what gives them any prosecutorial power whatsoever. The Congress is asserting power not given it by the Constitution.

    In answer to your question as to why a person might need Kenneth Copeland to have a relationship with God. It isn’t a matter of needing Kenneth to have a relationship with God. It is a matter of improving your relationship with God. This is why God gave the different ministry offices as stated in Ephesians 4:10-12. Kenneth Copeland walks in at least two of these offices, which are the office of a prophet and the office of a teacher.

    Ephesians 4:10-12
    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    God gave us people like Copeland to for perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.

    So it follows, to remove Copeland would be to remove one of God’s mean to perfect us saints for the work of the ministry and for the edifying of the body of Christ. So do you now understand how the absence of people like Copeland might adversely affect someone’s walk with God?

  135. Black David says:

    Article III, section 1:

    “The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. ”

    God gave you Copeland? To do what exactly? To take millions in other people’s money and spend it on private jets and expensive homes for himself and his family?

    I seriously doubt that would be a just God’s intent.

    It doesn’t take someone like that to feed starving bush babies in Africa the requisite bowls of gruel.

  136. prosperity7777 says:

    I think that the point that is being missed here is that people freely give their money to KCM. The people who give them money have already paid taxes on it. Unlike the Government that uses the force of law to extract trillions of dollars from the very citizens they are supposed to be using their power to protect, these ministries rely solely on people’s generosity.

    The Government should not be involved censoring Christian Ministries in any way, including as to how they spend the money that has been freely given to them. Further, our corrupt Government has no business interfering with people’s decision to give or how much to give to Christian ministries. The hypocrisy of Grassley, or any member of our extraordinarily wasteful, thieving Government, dictating financial morals to Kenneth is outrageous. The biggest liars, con-artists and thieves in the Country are in Congress. They have perfected the term Organized Crime.

    This persecution of Christians by Grassley is a clear abuse of power and an egregious violation of these Minister’s civil rights.

    Grassley has really shown how stupid he is by letting the idiot Old Oley provoke him into using his official position to persecute Kenneth and other Ministers. If Grassley is determined to prosecute a particular Religion, then his time would be better spent going after Islam. Many of the Mosques in this County are just clearing houses to export terror, while subject in Muslim schools in the U.S. is hatred of everybody who isn’t Muslim.

    …and what about the first successful invasion of this Country by a foreign power, namely Mexico. Hmmm, rather than being an enabler of crime; rather than failing to uphold his oath of office by failing to uphold the Constitution in that it is the Governments’ job to secure our boarders; do ya think Grassley might figure out how to get alien Mexicans to sign our guest book when they come into our County?

  137. Black David says:

    Please note for the record that I’ve proven to possess a better understanding of the Constitution than our friend prosperity7777. Sen. Grassley is certainly within his right to launch a committee that investigates and prosecutes.

    Evangelicals are amounting to be the most paranoid bunch outside of the Ron Paul freak fringe.

    You consign your federal government to the bogeyman role, when your own beloved televangelists run the biggest scams going. The sad thing is, you are too gullible and brainwashed to see it any other way. As long as you are able to feel that fake feel-good glow in the pit of your gut when you sign that check over to “Jesus Saves Incorporated,” nothing else matters, right?

    Nothing about Sen. Grassley’s activities is interfering with your ability to worship as you choose. No one is preventing you from praying. No one is preventing you from reading your Bible. No one is preventing you from going to church.

    Get over yourselves, people. Copeland is not a diety, so stop placing him on a pedestal.

    You already have a God, there’s no need to elevate a mortal to god status.

  138. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    I see no evidence you understand the Constitution of all.

    Can you or can you not, with all of your supposed expertise, identify what in the Constitution gives the Senate or the House the authority to subpoena citizens and to forcibly extract testimony from them. While Greassley puts these fine folks through an old style inquisition, he is also illegally depriving private citizens of their right to choose who they associate with, their personal freedom and a number of other Civil Rights, . A real good case coud be made for unlawful restraint, wich is just shy of a kidnapping charge. There is noting at all in the Constitution that authorizes the Congress to act as a Court. Congress is not a lower Court nor dies it have any authority to act as such. I expect that you, as do most liberals, rely of the corrupt, “The Constitution is A Living Document” theory, which it is not.

    I didn’t know you were qualified to diagnose Evangelicals’ mental pathology, whether as individuals or as a group. So let me see here. You are an expert in Constitutional Law and a Psychiatrist who specializes in group pathologies of religious people?

    Also like most big-government Liberals, you refuse to directly address the issues, while feigning superior knowledge and abd an alof pretense at morality. In fact all you have in your bag of tricks is sophistry and personal attacks that you use liberaly to attempt to discredit those who speak the truth. I expect most people here can easily see what you are doing.

    Grassley should be locked up for violating the Civil Right of these Preachers and the sooner the better. He is a disgrace to his office and a threat to the Constitutional freedoms of the citizens of this fine Republic.

  139. Black David says:

    Look prosperity7777, if you can’t read or understand Article 3 section 1, then there’s no sense in trying to reason with you.

    I am a conservative who follows his own standard of right and wrong. I have 62 intense years of experience dealing with people of all walks of life.

    If you don’t think so, then my blog should tell you everything you need to know.

    http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com

    If you don’t like the way the government works, you are free to move elsewhere.

    Remember the saying “America, love it or leave it”?

  140. prosperity7777 says:

    Section 1 Article 3 does not vest any power in the Congress to act as an inferior Court or any other type of Judiciary body. What it does is permit Congress to establish lower Federal courts, like the 8th Circus Court of Appeals.

    Section 1 – Judicial powers
    The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

    I would hardly call you a Conservative or Christian, and I care not for to hear trying in vane to justify your perverse view of Grassley’s unlawful actions with your 62 years of intense experiences with people. If this is any example of said experiences, I can’t see how you had anything other than intense experiences.

    Considering that you can’t even properly explain your own Constitutional cites, why would I ever want to visit your blog, which I expect is filled with Black David’s interpretation of the Constitution for dummies and psycho-babble, which is sure to get a laugh from any sane person.

    Remember the saying, stupid is as stupid does?

    If I don’t like the way the Government works I am free to stay right here and change it, whether you like it or not.

    To let you know, you are addressing a United States Marine Combat Veteran who knows exactly who and what he is addressing in you.

    May I suggest you work on your reading comprehension and then take another shot at the Constitution?

    See if you can understand the phrase Separation of Powers on the next go around?

    Grassley should be tried for using his position of power to violate these fine Ministers civil rights. I think about thirty years ought to set the right example for the rest of the criminals in our Government.

    Now, what did you want me to read nest?

  141. Black David says:

    “and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. ”

    And guess what, they ordained and established themselves as a lower court. Sorry if that reality escaped you.

    How is it then after all these years, they have been able to do this, despite the perpetual chorus of populist whining from people like you?

    You’re like someone who still argues a flat earth theory.

    I know you wouldn’t be saying a word if it wasn’t some holy roller yahoo being targeted by this Congressional committee.

    By the way, I am a Jew, so I’m sure a paleo-con or losertarian schmuck like you has problems with someone like me because I unilaterally support the US military funding of Israel since 1948. I also support the US foreign policy to preserve American hegemony in the Middle East at all cost.

    As far as stupid is as stupid does, perhaps you should remember that the word VAIN is not spelled VANE.

    There are typos and then there is outright ignorance of the English language, which is likely your second or third, after your Jarhead- or Redneck-speak.

    You don’t like the way government works? Here’s another idea, sparky, run for office yourself.

  142. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David

    If you can, please cite where Congress ordained and established itself as a lower Court,

  143. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Since you so admire my communication skills, let me respond the rest of your erratic and irrelevant comments.

    What a credit you are to the Jewish community, so crude, so rude and, pray tell, are you lewd as well?

    …but every loud cloud has a silver lining.

    Congratulations! Just like me, you support military funding of Israel. What a no brainer that one is. Man, if you had missed this one, I would really feel sorry for you.

    I guess you are hanging around here just to make a few friends?

    Coincidentally, I have a number of Jewish friends, although, as opposed to you, they are quite kind, polite, respectful people, to the point that it hard for me to believe you are even Jewish, not to mention over 62 years old. …more like 12 years old using his Daddy’s dictionary. ..perhaps you just have a rash.

    Here is an idea; if I don’t like the Government, I can write Congress and Vote, Vote, Vote! In case you missed it, I said VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So why are you, a secular speaking Jew, hanging around Christian blogs picking on po-liddle-ol former combat Marines? I actually did get a little sun on my neck today. It sure felt good too. Does that get your liberal blood up, or is it true what they say about Liberals being bloodless creatures of the night?

    Does this mean I have your permission to stay in my Christian Country now?

    Were you born in the U.S.? if not, where were you born?

    Why “Black” David? Why not Green David, Red David or Yellow David?

  144. Black David says:

    If you’d read my blog you’d know why it’s Black David here. But perhaps you prefer frequenting blogs that mirror your own orientation, like this one. You know Doug Wead isn’t going to take anyone to task for their views here, no matter how twisted or bizarre.

    I would rather be all that you accuse me of than be an ignorant fool who can’t understand how government operates by its own legal interpretation of the Constitution, despite your feeble and irreleveant protests.

    Unlike you, the common man bores me with his incessant whining about alleged injustices. It reminds me of the equally tiresome whining from minority groups who can’t get their act together and make it by their own wits.

    I wrote a blog entry about how Constitutionists are no different from religious fundamentalists, be they Christian or Muslim. They need “scripture” to lead their lives and to hold up as sacred.

    I hold nothing up as sacred. My mind is my church. I also don’t need mythical supernatural beings to guide my thinking, either. I accept things for what they are, not for what I hope they could be like.

    What happens to a Kenneth Copeland doesn’t affect your life one iota and you know it. It’s just a pretext for you to complain about the big bad government, the bulwark of all LOSERtarian leaning types.

  145. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David

    Well, are you goig to put up or shut up concerning your showing us where when and where Congress ordainred and established itself as a lower Court?

    …maybe you are having a spot of trouble finding the cite? lol

  146. Black David says:

    CORRECTION: I know it’s spelled IRRELEVANT, not IRRELEVEANT (sic).

    The lack of an editing feature with wordpress is problematic.

  147. Black David says:

    I already did cite Article III section 1.

    Too bad your public school education didn’t provide you with the necessary skill to read and comprehend.

    The members of Congress holding law degrees (something YOU don’t have) certainly see it my way, don’t they?

    So why would I believe some jarhead over people with J.D.s?

    That’s why you joined the Marines, no doubt. It’s the reason why they’re called jarheads. The name is apt, in your case, anyway.

  148. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    In other words, for all of your big mouth and and pretense of knowledge, you can’t show us where Congress ordained and established itself a lower Court.

    Will I ever get over the shock of it?

    Now that you have proven that Grassley is violating the civil rights of the citizens of the Unites States of America, you have my leave to continue being rude and crude.

    So, does 30 years in a Federal Klink for Grassley sound about right to you too or do you support our elected officials participating in criminal activity? Oops, I almost forgot, you think everybody who doesn’t like our elected official acting like criminals ought to leave the Country.

    Just out of Curiosity, what do you think about the comic strip entitle Dry Bones?

  149. prosperity7777 says:

    Article III Section 3 neither says the Congress is a lower Court or has ordained and established itself as a lower Court because it isn’t a lower Court. This is one of the stupidest notions I have ever heard even the most notorious of Liberals come up with.

    I really hope you are just aren’t a gullible as you sound.

    Maybe you just didn’t understand that most the people posting here are adults.

    See, when you make a claim here, people actually look for you to stand and deliver.

  150. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Do you worrk for the tyrant Grassley?

  151. prosperity7777 says:

    Hey Black David

    This webpage even has some pictures which might help you to understand the three branches of the Federal Government.

    http://www.evgschool.org/three_branches_of_government.htm

    The first article of the Constitution says “ALL legislative powers…shall be vested in a Congress.” The second article vests “the executive power…in a President.” The third article places the “judicial power of the United States in one Supreme Court” and “in such inferior Courts as the Congress…may establish.”

    Separation of powers serves several goals. Separation prevents concentration of power (seen as the root of tyranny) and provides each branch with weapons to fight off encroachment by the other two branches. As James Madison argued in the Federalist Papers (No. 51), “Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.” Clearly, our system of separated powers is not designed to maximize efficiency; it is designed to maximize freedom.

    CONGRESSIONAL ENCROACHMENT ON
    JUDICIAL POWERS

    In Ex Parte McCardle (1868) the Court decided it lacked jurisdiction to consider the habeas corpus petition of William McCardle, a Vicksburg, Mississippi newspaper editor arrested by military official for writing incendiary editorials about the federal officers then in control of Mississippi during Reconstruction. Although McCardle made his petition under the 1867 Habeas Corpus Act, Congress repealed the provision authorizing McCardle’s petition AFTER the Court had heard arguments in his appeal. Although it was obvious that Congress repealed the provision in an attempt to specifically deprive McCarldle of the opportunity to gain release from military custody, the Court nonetheless upheld the validity of the Act and found itself without jurisdiction. Many subsequent commentators, including conservative judge Robert Bork, have criticized the Court’s decision in McCardle and have predicted that it would not be followed today.

    In other words, the Court decided that Congrss had no authority to rule a a member of the Judiciary Branch of Governemnt.

  152. Black David says:

    The fact remains, sparky, that Congress agrees with me so that makes YOU the fool tilting at windmills.

    Obviously, Congress doesn’t care what puny and clueless citizens like you think. From the looks of things, that’s likely a very good outcome.

    You’re too stubborn to admit anything because you’re a fundamentalist who puts his allegiance to dogma ahead of everything else.

    Just like any holy roller schmuck.

    I could care less about your pseudo-law school lessons. There’s theory and then there’s reality. You are stuck in theories and ideals.

    I accept reality for what it is.

    Try it, you’ll sleep more easily.

    Kenneth Copeland can buy and sell you. Why are you worried about what happens to him?

  153. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    You ask, why do I care about Kenneth?

    For the same reason that the German citizens should have cared more for the Jews that Hitler murdered. Because they are human beings with inalienable rights, granted to them by God. One of the things Hitler used to stir up the German people’s hatred of the Jews was the fact that the Jews were generally more financially successful that the Germans. Isn’t money Grassley’s focus with Copeland. Isn’t it the fact that Kenneth is exceedingly successful financially. The fact is that Copeland represents millions of Word-of-Faith believers in this Country. If Grassley succeeds in using the Government to discredit Copeland, then he will also succeed in diminishing all Word-of-Faith people in the eyes of the general public. Just like the Government encouraged the German public to feel free to abuse the Jews, so will Grassley be opening the door for more unjust persecution of Christians in this country. This is why our Bill of Rights bars the Government from establishing any law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,… The current tax code and corrupt public officials like Grassley have diffidently established laws which have interfered with the free exercise of religion in this Country.

    Caring for peole is how it is when you have the love of God in your heart. Heck, not that you make it easy, I even care for you.

    In fact the Court does not agree with your interpretation of the Constitution.

    In Fact, this is where the excessive unconstitutional authority of Congress was affirmed by a corrupt judiciary. Please not the quotes.

    “Congress can subpoena witnesses, or force them to testify under oath, before its committees. This authority comes from the Constitution’s grant to Congress of “all legislative powers” (Article 1, Section 1). Witnesses are subpoenaed to provide information that will assist committees in preparing legislation. In the case of Mc-Grain v. Daugherty (1927), the Supreme Court recognized that Congress could subpoena even private citizens to testify. The Court noted that since not everyone would volunteer needed information, “some means of compulsion are essential to obtain what is needed.” Witnesses who refuse to respond to a congressional subpoena, or refuse to give information (unless they invoke their 5th Amendment protection against self-incrimination) may be found in contempt of Congress and sent to prison.

    The most famous use of the congressional subpoena occurred in 1973, when the Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities (popularly known as the Watergate Committee) subpoenaed the tape recordings that President Richard M. Nixon had secretly made of White House conversations. This was the first time that Congress had ever subpoenaed a President. Nixon tried to withhold the tapes, claiming executive privilege (the right of the President not to release internal documents of the administration to the Congress). The courts ruled that the President could not use executive privilege as blanket protection, but the White House then released only a heavily edited version of the tapes. In June 1974, in United States v. Nixon, the Supreme Court ruled that executive privilege was a limited power and that the President must turn over all of the requested tapes to a special prosecutor investigating the Watergate incident. The opening of these tapes led Congress to begin impeachment proceedings against the President, causing Nixon to resign.”

    The judiciary has no Constitutional standing to make such a decision and Congress has no Constitutional standing to subpoena people, except in internal issues like impeachment, confirmation of Judges, etc. This outrageous decision by the Court has turned Congress into an imperial tyrant over the people of this Country. This needs to be changed. The Government should have very limited access into out loves. The broad based encroachment of Congress into our lives is not Constitutional, neither is it morale.

    Congress’s encroachment into our freedoms does not end iwth relifion. Thisk about it for just a moment.

    The fact is you no longer have freedom of speech to the point where you can decide when you speak and who you speak to. Congress can compel you to talk to them by force of law and if you refuse, they can jail you. I wonder when they will begin expecting us to refer to them as their Lordships. IMHO, most of member of both houses belong in prison for abuse of power and their continual broad based violation of our civil rights. The tyrant Grassley persecution of these six fine Minister of the Gospel is just the beginning. I hope Copeland and crew are successful in standing up for freedom and liberty.

    Even if you small cog in a big wheel theory had merit, it could be worse. I should be you. Ouch!

  154. prosperity7777 says:

    Correction on the third to the last paragraph.

    It should read, “Congress’s encroachment on our freedom does not end with religion. Think about it for just a moment.”

  155. prosperity7777 says:

    My last sentence should have read, ” Even if your small cog in a big wheel theory had merit, it could be worse. I could be you.

  156. Black David says:

    Equating an investigation into a wealthy holly roller abusing his tax exempt status with the nazi persecution and murder of Jews is ridiculous and not worth dignifying.

    It’s actually an insult to Jews, but you wouldn’t see that I’m sure.

    And you can stop with your law school drop-out lectures. I am not interested.

  157. Black David says:

    I should add that people like you are paranoid, but then, most losertarian/paleo-con types are.

    Too bad you never learned what being a sensible conservative is like.

  158. Black David says:

    sorry, HOLY roller, not HOLLY roller.

  159. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David

    You have your fadcts wrong. Kenneth has been through many external audits and had come up spotless. He has even requested the IRS Audit his records. Do you ever check your facts before you post. So, what do you care what Kenneth does with his money?

  160. prosperity7777 says:

    I am not afraid of you or anyone else. I have read the back of the book and guess what? We Win!!!! You need to get on the winning team.

  161. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Once one gets by your inaccurate statements and name calling, there really isn’t much to you is there?

  162. Black David says:

    “So, what do you care what Kenneth does with his money?”

    Either you are Doug Wead posting under an alias or you have an awful habit of addressing people you don’t know personally by their first name.

    It’s not Copeland’s money. He didn’t earn it. He skimmed from the church donation coffers to pay for his jet, his homes, his expensive suits.

    If he had a real job and actually earned a paycheck, then there wouldn’t be a problem.

    Televangelists are among the biggest scams going. They sell salvation and snake oil for a hefty price to gullible saps who can’t think for themselves and who think they are going to a mythical place when they die.

    Sorry, you can observe your religion in private without forking over a dime to some schmuck in an expensive suit flying around in a private jet.

    Guess what, there’s far more to a person to me that doesn’t owe any stranger an ounce of loyalty or one thin dime in order to ensure my personal happiness.

  163. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    You have completely missed it again. I don’t care what Kenneth does with his money because it is his money.

    Kenneth doesn’t mind people calling him Kenneth.

    He didn’t skim the money I gave him from the Church because I gave it to him. I hope he gets another jet if he wants it. You sure seem awfully interested in temporal things for such a spiritual person.

    Actually he is on salary approved by a board of directors. You sure don’t seem to know much about his finances. Has that green eyed monster known as Jealousy taken you over.

    Where do you think you are going when you die?

    How about I worship an manage my money the way I choose to and let you do the same?

    Have you ensured your happiness and if so, exactly what are you happy about?

  164. Black David says:

    “He didn’t skim the money I gave him from the Church because I gave it to him.”

    And what did you get in return for that investment? Bupkis, that’s what you got.

    People like you have SUCKER written all over you and you don’t even know it.

    I have amassed a very comfortable living through shrewd investing. You can’t live in a condo near Central Park without lots of money. I also don’t steal money from strangers in exchange for false hope and spend it on frivolous things like jets and expensive suits.

    “Where do you think you are going when you die?”

    I am going to be worm food, that’s where.

    “exactly what are you happy about?”

    My own flesh and blood family. I am also happy when criminal scum are convicted and jailed. I am exceedingly happy when Israelis or American armed forces kill Islamo fascist savages.

  165. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Thank you for your reply.

    You asked, “What did I get?” Answer: God’s approval and substantial financial harvest. You should try it.

    Kenneth is given money by his friends and by strangers because He is a conduit for God’s hope. Like I said, you should try it.

    I expect many of the Companies you invest in rip people off on a regular basis. Most Companies do, even if it isn’t there intent. It is just the way worldly business is.

    The thought of living in New York, let alone next to Central Park, is the stuff that nightmares are made of. Yuck!

    That is quite an ambition you have, but becoming worm food won’t be your end. If all you became was worm food, then you would come up winners compared to where you are going if you don’t believe in the lord Jesus Christ and believe that God raised Him from the dead so that you can be saved.

    I thought you said you were Jewish. You must be a secular Jew. Too bad.

    Even if you have made millions off the Market, you sound like a man who is truly poor in heart. Don’t you think that God wants you to give money to others, or don’t you believe in God?

    I am glad to hear that you want to see criminals like the imperialistic tyrant Grassley locked up.

    The shame of your well placed patriotic notions is that both you and the Muslims, who you enjoy seeing killed, will both be spending eternity in the lake of fire that burns forever and for the same reason. Let me see if you can figure it out. I have already given you a clue.

  166. Black David says:

    I don’t require approval from a mythical supernatural being. The only approval I need is from my flesh and blood family.

    I believe there’s some creative force in the universe but it stops there. I will not place it on a pedestal and I will not worship it as some deity figurehead. I don’t need to. No one of a strong and independent will does either. Only the weak of mind does.

    If you have some hard physical evidence of this afterlife you allude to, then please, provide it for me.

    Words from a book of Hebrew folk tales doesn’t count. It’s all designed to give those of a weak mind a purpose to keep them from fearing death. Only the weak needs a pacifier.

  167. Black David says:

    “Words from a book of Hebrew folk tales doesn’t count.”

    correction: it should be DON’T count.

  168. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David

    Your flesh and blood family can’t save your Soul.

    I think you better in a really good fire suit. You will also need to get used to the idea that you will have to give up drinking water because there isn’t any in the lake of fire.

    The Bible is physical evidence of an afterlife. It confirms itself.

    You have feared death all of your life.

    God’s Word always counts.

    David, you are just looking for Jesus. He knows it, I know it, others on this blog know it and the the thing is, Jesus is waiting on you to believe in Him. He is the resurrected Son of God who paid the price for your sin so that you can live in Heaven with God for al eternity.

    Have a great day.

  169. Black David says:

    (yawn) Tell your Jesus of Nazareth he knows where he can stick it.

    Another reason why evangelicals are misguided fools:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/29/evangelicals-warn-against-mccain-romney-ticket/

  170. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Why don’t you tell Him?

    Then you can sit down to eat your evening dinner with your family and tell them how all they have to look forward to is becoming worm food.

    Would you really tell your children that they are going to become worm food?

    …the good David

  171. Black David says:

    Of course I have and they are smart enough to accept that reality with dignity.

    My children are grown adults, by the way.

    With that knowledge, they understand that they have to work hard and build a legacy while they are alive so something can be left for their heirs.

  172. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    You should be proud of yourself. You have raised your children to belive that their destiny is to become worm food. What an accomplishment.

    Why do you bother with life at all seeing as how you believe you have no future?

  173. Black David says:

    I am not afraid of the inevitability of death. Why should I be? All living things die. That’s the way existence works. Why is that so hard to accept?

    The weak of mind, like you, needs a crutch, a pacifier, to lull yourselves into believing that you, or this thing called a “soul,” go to one of two places after you die, even though you have no hard physical evidence that any of that exists.

    Oh, that’s right, you have a book of old folk tales that tells you otherwise.

    It’s so ridiculous to contemplate that I have to laugh at those who need that carrot on the end of the stick to give their lives purpose.

  174. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Are you sure you are a Jew?

  175. prosperity7777 says:

    Anyway, I hope everybody here writes to the Tyrant Grassley and tells him that he should figure out how to rid us of illegal aliens rather than persecute Word-of-Faith Christians.

  176. Black David says:

    See? Your hocus pocus wouldn’t work on me. That’s some power you think you possess.

    Being a Jew in my estimation is a matter of bloodline. Sorry I do not comport to your preconceived stereotypes. We don’t all wear yarmulkes and funny beards and say “oy vey!” like we’re in the road company of Fiddler on the Roof.

    Again, your ability to personally worship has NOT BEEN ABRIDGED. That’s one thing you yahoos won’t admit. You have your knickers in a twist about one rich guy who could care less about you if you aren’t lining his pockets with your donations.

  177. Black David says:

    If you’re the big bleeding heart Christian that “loves the least of these” (according to your book of folk tales) then you shouldn’t fear the illegal aliens.

    You would be embracing them with open arms and offering them food and shelter.

    Remember, “WWJD?” Isn’t that what you people are always supposed to be asking yourselves?

    Or are you one of those fake Christians who talks a good game but in reality, is something quite the opposite?

  178. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Unfortunately, you you do comport to certain types of Jews mentioned in the Bible.

    Why do you think this blog is about illegal aliens.

    So what are you going to do when the Government comes for you?

    Say, if you really do support Israel, why don’t you write you elected officials to recommend we sell them 150 F/A 22 Raptors to Israel. This would give Israel all the punch it needs to knock out Iran’s Nuclear program and its air and mechanized assets.

    …the good David

  179. Black David says:

    Amazing. You couldn’t get anywhere with your Onward Christian Soldiers crusade so now it’s onto illegal aliens, eh?

    “Why do you think this blog is about illegal aliens.”

    The last I checked, Doug Wead’s blog is subtitled “A Contrarian’s View of History.” I don’t see anything else about illegal aliens, which is only a problem if you live in a quasi-Third World border state. Since I don’t, it’s not on my list of priorities.

    “So what are you going to do when the Government comes for you?”

    I’ll leave fears of the Big Bad Government to paranoid losertarians like you.

  180. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    The out of control tyrant Grassley’s time would be better spent upholding the Constitution, which includes securing our boarders, rather than using his position of authority to persecute Christians. Of course he would have to actually have taken his oath of office seriously to care about our Nation’s boarders and protecting the rights of Christians, rather than persecuting them.

    So, are you really a Jew? I have some friends who are Jews. I never thought of them as worm food. lol

  181. Black David says:

    “The out of control tyrant Grassley’s time would be better spent upholding the Constitution, which includes securing our boarders, ”

    Who are these boarders? Please name them.

    Really? You actually think? I thought all you evangelicals robots simply follow what your book of folk tales tells you.

    By the way, netspeak is for idiots.

  182. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David

    What is you point or points.

  183. Black David says:

    You don’t know the difference between a BOARDER and a BORDER, that’s my point.

    It’s like the way you didn’t know the difference between VANE and VAIN earlier.

    You’re not very well educated, are you? Public school grad, perhaps?

    There are typos and then there is outright ignorance of the English language.

    Using netspeak only diminishes your ability to articulate clearly.

  184. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David

    Do you get a short-lived sense of self worth by pointing out others shortcomings? …short lived, because you have to keep doing it so you can stay up on yourself. By the way, I can barely see what I am typing in this box because the pitch is so small.

    However, the thing you should work on is understanding the difference between what is important and what isn’t important. You focus on your untied shoes rather than the 18 wheeler of the curse of sin and death that is running over the top of you and your worm food family.

    Wouldn’t you rather choose life in God than death?

  185. Black David says:

    I believe if you are sloppy speller or writer then you must be a sloppy thinker as well.
    Attention to detail is what’s important. You are posting to a world wide forum. Why wouldn’t you strive to be the best writer you can be?

    The curse of sin? Sorry, I don’t know what that is. I choose to live life not in fear of some mythical supernatural beings monitoring my activities

  186. prosperity7777 says:

    Aside from calling people who you never met liars, you can think what you want about my writing, but I do seem do be doing good enough to keep you lofty attention.

    Didn’t you recently post a correction to one of your posts. I guess that is different in your mind.

    It is too bad you haven’t learned to fear the mightiest supernatural being of all, which is Almighty God! This is the beginning of wisdom.

    …the good David

  187. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David

    Romans 10:8-10
    8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    …the good David

  188. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

    1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

    ..the good David

  189. Black David says:

    (yawn) You serve a purpose by compelling me to keep ridiculing your stupidity and naivete in a world wide forum.

    With every post, you prove why Christian evangelicals are fools who because of their stupidity, will help Barry O. become President if they don’t get with the program and back John McCain.

  190. prosperity7777 says:

    …or maybe John McCain can start representing Christian interests. Now there is a thought. A politician who conforms to his electorate’s will rather than the other way around.

    Since Carter gave us the late great Ronald Regan. Obama may give us the greatest Christian President in the history of the United States.

    Now lets get back to your fear of death. You do realize, that at age 62, you may not be far from your flesh becoming worm food and your immortal soul going for a splash in the lake of fire that will buns you forever.

    Of course, should you decide to change you destiny, then Jesus is your answer.

  191. Black David says:

    Just as i thought, a bunch of self-centered whiners.

    Substitute the word “minority” for “Christian” in your last rant and you are no different than those dependent underclasses who aren’t happy unless some politicians mollycoddles them.

    You are weak and pathetic.

    “Since Carter gave us the late great Ronald Regan (sic). Obama may give us the greatest Christian President in the history of the United States.”

    What stupid logic. No wonder you people are laughed at and ridiculed. You don’t think with sense, only pure hysteria and emotion. You would rather punish your nation for four years out of spite because you aren’t getting your way..

    That’s truly the most ignorant piece of thinking I’ve heard.

    Funny, you revere Reagan so much and you can’t even spell his name correctly. You are an undereducated dolt. No wonder you need a book of folk tales to lead you through life.

  192. Black David says:

    “and your immortal soul going for a splash in the lake of fire that will buns you forever.”

    If you have some physical evidence that it actually exists, please let me know.

    Folk tale accounts don’t count.

  193. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    I have God’s Word on it.

    You will find out soon enough.

    …the good David

  194. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Getting close to the heat will relax a person, that is until you get too close.

    …the good David

  195. […] Kenneth Copeland’s Jet:  https://dougwead.wordpress.com/2008/04/12/kenneth-copelands-jet/ Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)What’s new in Washington Monthly, Time, Heeb, […]

  196. kristos747 says:

    great to see Doug on KCM this AM.

    Kenneth asked us for prayer for this jet by mail (not personally🙂 )and we interceded for months so the ministry (not Ken personally) could get this Jet.

    We run the world’s largest and oldest Intercessory prayer site, so we had everyone praying ( http://www.prayer.la )
    We were blessed to see them blessed.

    Ken and Gloria’s teaching dramatically changed our lives.
    We have been serving the Lord for 12 years.
    we spent 7 years as missionaries at a work called the Dream Center in LA.
    We got $200 a month there for pay and grew up into a full blown poverty mentality.

    Ken showed us that the Word of God says so much more is available.
    And we have been blessed to be a blessing to ministries and God’s kids.
    We we started confessing Galatians 3:29 and Romans 4:13 every day,
    then saying out loud THE BLESSING OF ABRAHAM HAS COME UPON US!
    our income has quadrupled in six months.

    Gloria’s healing schools have become an integral part of our lives.
    with these teachings and out loud confession of the Word of God we have
    overcome so many physical problems.

    We thank God for Ken and Gloria!!!!

  197. Black David says:

    “Kenneth asked us for prayer for this jet by mail (not personally )and we interceded for months so the ministry (not Ken personally) could get this Jet.”

    Did he also ask you to pray for a Mercedes Benz or a BMW? How about a new home theater system?

  198. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    …or maybe for your soul.

    …the good David

  199. poreagus says:

    I don’t understand the mentality that some have over ministries with large buildings and planes. People willfully give to these ministries because they believe in there cause. I believe that people should have the freedom to give to any cause they want without speculation or ridicule. Copeland has kept no secrets from his congregation. If people want to give to a person they find insparational, and help support his continuing inspiration, why not let them??

  200. kristos747 says:

    black david
    “Did he also ask you to pray for a Mercedes Benz or a BMW? How about a new home theater system”

    No sir, those things are easily available for someone who is a giver. we did not know he needed a home theater system or we probably would have had one sent to them as a gift.😉

    The Jets purpose is to get him around the world quicker do do the work he does for the Lord, and it’s price tag was formidable. it is not for his personal comfort but for the furtherance of the gospel exclusively.
    Thats why we believed he needed and and rally thousands to join us in prayer for it.

    …another good David.

  201. joseph1imp says:

    Blackdavid…

    “Jews deserve a homeland”…I believe they do, however how can you say that, neither believing in the God who gave it to them or his Word??

    Maybe they should have it in Ur, where Abraham came from, before the God you don’t believe in told him to go into a land that he would show him and give to him for a possession.

    Please do not misunderstand I am not an anti-semite I believe that the Jewish people are God’s chosen, and support everything this nation has done for Isreal.

    Jesus said that no man knows the day or hour of his return but that if we watch the fig tree (Isreal) we would know the season. It is interesting to note that no other country in history has ever been restored as Isreal has! God told us he would do this as well as bringing his people back to thier homeland. what a wonderful season to be alive! It is amazing that a book that you refer to as fairytales consistantly and accurately predicted so many things that have come to pass!

    I know that you will probably respond with your typical scorn, cynicism, and and editing…I love you anyway, with the love of Jesus

  202. Black David says:

    Hmm, seems to me he could have saved his ministry lots of money by flying business class like everyone else.

    What makes him so above everyone else that he needs a personal jet paid for with money he didn’t even earn himself?

    And please, stop giving me this “for the Lord” nonsense. The only people with true altruistic motivation are those who declare vows of poverty.

    Everyone else does it purely for self-aggrandizement.

  203. joseph1imp says:

    “The only people with true altruistic motivation are those who declare vows of poverty”

    HAAAA HHHAAAAA You expose your ignorance of the Word of God.
    How would anyone in poverty be able to help anyone? Just doesn’t make sense.

  204. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Commercial flights do not accommodate his over crowded itinerary.

    Do you think motivational speakers earn their money? If so, then why can’t you understand that a preacher like Kenneth is a very busy man who certainly deserves a portion of the fruits of his labor.

    As the person before me said, exactly how do think poor people can help people?

    Why do you spend so much time attacking people like Kenneth and the people on this blog, since all of us support Israel and love the Jews. Heck, I doubt most of us mind paying taxes so the U.S. to help Israel with military equipment and money? So, especially since you don’t give money to Kenneth, wouldn’t your time be better spent attacking you enemies than your friends?

    Do you realize that there are more good David’s on this blog than Black David’s? We have you surrounded buddy. lol

    …the good David

  205. Black David says:

    “Kenneth is a very busy man who certainly deserves a portion of the fruits of his labor.”

    Right, it’s really hard work to skim from the offering plate.

    “How would anyone in poverty be able to help anyone? Just doesn’t make sense.”

    Did you ever hear of the work by Catholic priests and nuns on behalf of the poor? They don’t earn a salary for their efforts.

  206. Black David says:

    “Heck, I doubt most of us mind paying taxes so the U.S. to help Israel with military equipment and money?”

    Uh, the fact is, Jethro, the money given to Israel is for their military to buy our defense technology. What we give them we essentially get back. It’s a win-win for both countries.

  207. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    When you give money for someone to buy your product, it is hardly a wash. By our own report, we still donated the product at our expense. 2 + 2 aint 5 yet, even if you are a Jew.

    You can start with this link to educate yourself on the aid the U.S. provides Israel.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

    That you think Catholic Priests are poor just shows your ignorance in two areas.

    1) Most Catholic priests I have met want for noting except a sex life. Further, as a religious organization, Catholics are rolling in money.

    2) As to the relationship of Catholic priests to Christianity; Jews too commonly accept Catholic Priests as God’s Christian representatives to the world. This is not true.

    You also seem to think that Catholic Priests follow the Biblical model for finances concerning money. They don’t. No where in the Bible does He require his people to take a vow of poverty.

    Isn’t there some Muslim message board that you need to share your sweetness with? Do you remember them? They are the guys who really don’t like you. lol

    …the good David

  208. g9momma says:

    prosperity7777 –

    I enjoy the way you word things.
    Very eloquently said. LOL🙂

  209. Black David says:

    Of course you would say that, Jethro, illiterate dolts tend to find each other invariably.

    Try working more at the proper means to pluralize nouns without the apostrophe.

    As for prosperity’s fuzzy math, the USA wouldn’t be trading with Israel at a loss.

    His anti-Catholic bias is well noted. Fundamentalist evangelical Christians have historically despised Catholics and Jews.

    Heck, look at the way they despise Mitt Romney for being a Mormon. They are about the most intolerant bunch of people around.

  210. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    You really aren’t up on how the U.S. does business with other Countries. America trades with everybody at a loss on both a political and business level. Can you say nation-building or trade-deficit. Our Government gives away more money than any Government on earth. Heck, it gives away more money than it has and then asks us for more. I guest geopolitical economics isn’t your bag.

    Did you figure out where Jews came from yet?

    Ah yes, I do want to try out your method of bean counting. I’ll tell you what. You give me a lot of money and I will use it to buy a really nice car from you. According to your way of thinking, it is a win-win deal. I will have a new car and you will break even and feel good about having done something nice for your friend. Isn’t that how you said it works? So when do you want to get down to business Bra? If you buy me a new car of my choice, I will in turn let you make 2+2=5. Works for me!

    Here is another gift for you to exercise your editing skills on.

    Buut ur rait Black Davidd, poore grmerd is noot funy unless I beez wraiting too yourn self, then it iiss a rioot. Peze crect adn gets back ta mez. TKS

    There is only one answer for you. JESUS!

    …the good humorous David

  211. Black David says:

    Please tell me how a sixth grade graduate like you who can’t spell worth a damn could possibly understand a subject as complex as macroeconomics.

    It’s just not possible.

  212. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    I thought you would enjoy the little spelling exercise I gave you and guess what? You did. Good for you!

    Regarding my knowledge of macroeconomics being far superior to yours; All things are possible with God. Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

    By the way, there is not nearly as much wrong with my spelling as there is with your manners.

    So Mr. Worm Food, when are you sending me your money so I can buy my car from you? I thought you would jump on this opportunity like a chicken on a bug. Don’t you want 2+2 to equal 5?

    People here seem to understand so much more than you about almost everything. They understand where the Jews came from. They understand that Christians have the love of God in their heart for Jews. The understand God has used America to ensure the existence of Israel. They understand who their friends are. They understand what good manners are. They understand how to count. They understand Grassley’s persecution of Christians is unconstitutional and immoral.

    …but most of all, they understand the love of God in Christ Jesus and how to attain eternal life with God.

    …the good Saint David, King of the King, Lord of the Lord, the very righteousness of God Almighty in Christ Jesus, blessed going in and blessed coming out. Whew, did God make me super cool or what?

  213. g9momma says:

    Since BD has not provided any college or university degrees, no proof to back his statements,and no financial statements on his blog as of yet…perhaps he’s JUST a lonely retired sixth grade teacher? He must miss correcting those sixth grade papers? Or his garden since he’s so fond of worms🙂

    The best BD can come back with is spite and simple grammer.
    Well, at least he has his grammer (?)

    By the way…how was my spelling? I think I may have mispelled a couple of words…he-he!

  214. Black David says:

    No wonder they call you god’s children.

    You are indeed children.

    You read a fairy tale book and believe the fairy tales you read.

    You believe in the hocus pocus of the magicians in the fairy tale book. Water into wine is a real knee slapper. Only a child could believe that to be true.

    You believe in mythical beings and that these mythical beings take care of you.

    You believe in a fairy tale existence after you die, which is supposed to give your present fairy tale existence meaning.

    Only children need to be told how to think and act.

    And stupid adults!

  215. Black David says:

    To the silly kid demanding that I supply academic credentials– obviously, there’s one thing you never learned in your holy roller life is that you don’t disrespect your elders and make demands upon them.

    Hmm, isn’t there some scripture that says something about that? Not a very good Christian, are you? Figures, most Christians are phonies to the core. They talk a good game but deep down, they are as vile and corrupt as those the point the finger at.

  216. Black David says:

    “The best BD can come back with is spite and simple grammer.
    Well, at least he has his grammer (?)”

    Here’s the perfect argument supporting voluntary sterilization.

  217. prosperity7777 says:

    g9momma,

    I agreeee with your assssssesment of Black David.

    …the good David

  218. prosperity7777 says:

    Folks,

    Keep a stiff upper lip,

    Black David is slowly, but surely reducing his arguments to simple minded belligerent blather.

    He is sooooo smart.

    …the good David

  219. Black David says:

    “reducing his arguments to simple minded belligerent blather.”

    What hypocrites.

    And remind me please who are the brain dead dolts who can only repeatedly cite gibberish from a fairy tale book as the basis for their existence?

    Talk about simple minded blather! But no, god’s “children” who believe in fairy tales can never see the folly of their ways.

    You just can’t for a moment see how ridiculous you all sound. You live in these bubbles and hold your hands over your ears when someone like me challenges your carefully constructed existence where nothing is left to chance.

  220. halcyon2 says:

    davidblack2 Says: (now representing himself as Black David)
    February 9, 2008 at 7:46 pm (from another Doug Wead blog)

    “Scripture that verifies Israel’s claim to its land:

    Genesis 15:18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates–”
    Genesis 35:10-12 God said to him, “Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel.” So he named him Israel. And God said to him, “I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body. The land I gave to Abraham and Isaac I also give to you, and I will give this land to your descendants after you.”
    Deuteronomy 34:4 “This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, ‘I will give it to your offspring’”
    2 Chronicles 6:5-6 ‘Since the day that I brought My people from the land of Egypt, I did not choose a city out of all the tribes of Israel in which to build a house that My name might be there, nor did I choose any man for a leader over My people Israel; but I have chosen Jerusalem that My name might be there, and I have chosen David to be over My people Israel.'”

    The above quoted by DavidBlack2 now calling himself Black David from the “book of fairy tales” to support his position on a Doug Wead blog about Ron Paul.

  221. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David

    Thank you for proving my point.

    So, when are you going to send me a lot of money so I can buy a car from you Bra.

    David

  222. halcyon2 says:

    Please note the hypocrisy of one using the book he calls fairy tales to prove a point on a public political blog.

  223. g9momma says:

    “To the silly kid that demands I supply academic…”
    I am not a ‘kid’ but thank you – it has been so very long since anyone has called me a kid🙂 My youth is renewed like the eagles🙂
    And, since you have been so kind to offer your professional editing for free – I just thought it would be apropriate for you to list your credentials so the fellow readers’ have a better understanding and know to be ware of the SIX GRADE TEACHER is watching their spelling & grammer. (LOL)

    “you don’t disrespect your elders…”

    I do respect your ‘opinion’ although I do not agree with it.
    In addition, ‘personal’ respect is earned. And I do give respect where respect is due. Kenneth Copeland is 71 years old🙂 Maybe you should try to follow through with your own request – respect YOUR elder sir. To date – I haven’t seen one thing respect worthy coming from any statement you have uttered at all. Most of what you have stated is spite for the world, for liberals, christians, ect. All you do is show dispite and hate. There is nothing TO respect in hateing. There is a difference in disagreeing and hate. You have stated time and time again how you have felt…I’m sure it feels good to get your opinion off of your chest. However, your venting is just fueling your fire of anger, fear, and distane towards what seems like everyone that doesn’t agree with your worm theory.

    (keep listening to all those voices buddy…hopefully someday you will hear God’s voice louder than the other voices)

    And last…do you have your financial statements preprared yet?

  224. g9momma says:

    Correction:
    All you do is show spite and hate.

  225. g9momma says:

    DB –

    Please consider something for me?
    All this spite, anger, and disagreeing just can’t be good for your health. It is a scientific proven fact that anger, hate, ect. can cause great health problems such as heart disease, stroke, ect. I may not agree with your view on – well – everything you say, but I don’t want your health compromised due to it.

    Your ‘opinion’ is just that…your opinion.
    You are one man fighting a huge wave of people who of their own personal will believing without a chance of you converting even one person. Surely there is another way of redirecting all of this energy you have into something more productive? Perhaps world hunger, the ozone problems, drug lords world wide? Now there are a few subjects you would be extremely helpful with.

    In this particular case…it seems to me (and practically everyone who reads this)…that this is a lose~lose situation for you.

  226. Black David says:

    Halcyon2 is the classic Israel hating paleo-con John Bircher type who believes the USA should be isolationist. He wanted some justification for Israel’s claim to ancient Judea, so I provided him with scripture that many Jews use to base their reasoning.

    That doesn’t mean that *I* personally believe it.

    I feel Israel’s claim should be based not only on the fact that they have been persecuted for thousands of years, but also on the fact that Jews are a superior race of achievers in the areas of commerce, science, medicine, and the arts. We comprise less than 1% of the world’s population but we’ve dominated the aforementioned areas on a world scale.

  227. Black David says:

    g9momma: you are a kid, as well as a moron, because you use netspeak and emoticons.

  228. Black David says:

    distane (sic)?

    hateing (sic)?

    You’re not even trying. You are one lazy and pathetic bastard.

    Why should anyone have respect for you if you can’t respect something as important as the English language?

    But as long as some mythical being says it loves you, then no problem, right?

  229. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    It is true that the Jews are an accomplished race, but it is a shame that they are represented here by someone as poorly mannered as you.

    There are some things you might consider when you aren’t indulging in self-aggrandizement…

    For all of the Jewish your accomplishments, why did they need the U.S. to pull them out of the fire during WWII? I guess you think the millions of Christian Americans who sacrificed their blood and very lives in WWII as being somehow inferior to the Jews they rescued.

    God gave you life and you spit in His face.

    American Christians have made tremendous sacrifices for Israel and you spit in our face.

    Jesus loves you enough that He died for you. He was crucified so the curse of sin an death could be reversed in your life, which, if you ever choose to avail yourself of His sacrifice, you will enter into eternal life with God. …but how have you responded to Jesus’ supreme sacrifice for you? You spit in Jesus’ face too.

    Are you sure you aren’t a Muslim who came to this blog to try to discredit Christians and Jews alike?

    …by the way, did you find that misspelled word in my previous post?

    …the good David

  230. g9momma says:

    🙂 BD ~

    The reason why Jews have more of a claim on medicine, science, and the arts is because they have looked to the Lord their God, the Father of Abram, Isaac, and Jacob. The Jews know that the true knowledge begins and ends with God (you know – that mythical being you keep mentioning). And in following God’s specific instructions from the bible…of course they will be sucessful – each and every person who does follow the instruction manuel IS sucessful!
    (i.e. Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyers, ect.)

    In addition, if you look into history, particularly in Europe when plagues killed thousands…the Jews didn’t suffer, they didn’t experience the plagues running country wide (only as a spectator they were Ps. 91), and they didn’t die from the plagues.
    ** Why one would ask? **
    BECAUSE THEY FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THEIR LORD (primarily from the book of Liviticus) which instructed which foods were safe and which were unclean. The instructions from this mythical book (as you call it) kept YOUR people safe from plagues and ensured Jewish survival.

    The Jews are known throughout history – and the bible (that mythical book of fairytales you keep bringing up) has been able to with stand over two thousand years, unlike some of the other books you have mentioned that shows to be books that were/are nothing more than a ‘fad’ or a persons perspective. Poof…in one day and forgotten the next.

    Moreover, bible events have also lined up with several archaeological and scientifical findings proving that the specific events listed in the bible have indeed taken place. In addition, the events listed in the bible have been proven and shown to line up with the historical events of other cultures and religions throughout the world.

    Please look into some world history before you are so quick to dismiss it.

    I just have to love you BD – even in being proven wrong time and time again with hard concrete historical proof backing me – you still yet have to prove even one point of mine incorrect. All you can do is sware, show rudeness, and bad talk people. I love you BD – God loves you too.

    If you take the time [instead of wasting time on speaking against what you don’t know and cannot prove] to read into your own religious background (Jewish history), world history, world religion and THEN read the old testiment…you will see all lines up with the word of God.

    You will also see…that like you…many Jews of the old testiment found themselves worshiping other gods’ (in your case – yourself serving as your own personal god – that and the many voices in your head). Your Heavenly Father showed compasion and mercy towards the Jews and on countless occaisions showed His forgiveness and grace. God loves you David Black and will ALWAYS love you regardless of whether or not you believe He exists. He believes in you. In His eyes, you are His special child, made and created unlike any other ( amen to that🙂 ). He will NEVER stop loving you, and will never stop showing His mercy and forgiveness. You but need to search that out for yourself. That is something I cannot do for you my dear elder. Prayer is what I will continue on your befalf, even if you sware at me until Jesus comes – I will not stop loving you and praying for you.

    Now, on to something that you can understand…how was my spelling and grammer? I just can’t wait to hear this!
    (he-he-he-he)🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

  231. g9momma says:

    DB ~ I’d rather be poor in the use of the english language, but have my facts straight…than to be correct in the english language and not have a clue and be completely incorrect in facts…you prove your ignorance worldwide, LOL, and for some weird reason – it is alright with you that you are making an utter fool of yourself in the eyes of the entire world.

    (Are you listening to those voices in your head again? Are they telling you grammer is more important that facts? They have Doctors – and medicine for people like you)

  232. g9momma says:

    LOL ~ how do you spell distane (ha-ha)
    OH, and can you stop inserting “sic”, if you know it is spelled incorrect that by all means…correct it and show the correct spelling.
    And ~ what is ‘sic’…(hehe), I always thought is was “S I C K” (LOL)

    (lighten up BD)

    Awe come on…you have to have some kind of sense of humor. This is funny stuff!

  233. g9momma says:

    Why should I try…I have you giving free editing🙂
    This is amusing, much more fun than scrabble.

  234. prosperity7777 says:

    g9momma,

    Scrabble is what Black David’s pontificating reminds me of. Just like a Scrabble board, his posts are just a bunch of unrelated words that all over the board. ..but he can spell.

    He must not have much of a life if all he has to do is go where he isn’t appreciated, saying things no one wants to hear in a ways that makes him look like he hasn’t been out of his house in about 100 years. lol

    David

  235. prosperity7777 says:

    I think Black David has given up. I wonder when he will give it up to God?

    …the good David

  236. halcyon2 says:

    Despite his despite and self-serving claims, he is likely fat, bald, may live near Central Park, but over a deli with curled linoleum, flypaper on the wall, a mangy cat as a sole companion, and a broken down computer he filched from a dumpster, gleaning the day-old or older leavings from the deli below. If there is family, why doesn’t he spend more time with them rather than all over the net spreading sourness? Maybe it’s all of that nearly-spoiled salami. His so-called investments range from lottery tickets to racing form pickings. If he does have a family, he’s as much of a laugh to them as to everyone else.

    I did a search of his name and found him polluting sites all over the web-sports, politics, anything to fill his time. The only ones who tolerate him for any length of time are Christians. He’s a wanna’-be, left behind because no one can stand him for any length of time. His absurd website he coaxes everyone to visit has very few comments. He has to go to other places that do have a draw, such as Doug Wead, whom he abuses, though he uses to fill his empty shell of a life. He is refuted elsewhere as well, over and over. When backed in a corner with counter information – with truth – he goes to abuse and personal attacks. He gets up the next day and repeats the process. He took quite a drubbing on that RP site. Along with them and others, I am suitably unimpressed.

    The portrait has emerged of a very pathetic figure. All this and Hell too?

  237. Black David says:

    “Despite his despite and self-serving claims, ”

    Wow, the illiterate hillbilly redneck revolt has begun!

    I have not been on any sports message boards. There’s dozens of david blacks out there, you Jew hating dolt.

    Please show where I have “abused” Doug Wead. Doug Wead is a grown boy who can take care of himself. He can certainly buy and sell your pathetic redneck hide many times over.

    So this is how so-called Christians are supposed to act? What hypocrites. You are no better than the people you point fingers at for being persecutors and abusers.

    You are as vicious and vile as they are and I’ve drawn that out of you. Congratulations, phonies. You are no more god’s example than I am. Jesus would be embarrassed by your pathetic displays.

    Even Jesus thinks you’re morons, too.

    Keep quoting that scripture and putting on your act. It may fool most people but it’s not fooling me. That’s why I’m here, to rub your noses in your fraud.

    Frauds are your friends, just like Copeland, Hinn, or any other televangelists who sell salvation for a price.

  238. halcyon2 says:

    Actually, you are the worst anti-semite around and do the Jewish cause the worst harm. You are a prime example of the stiff-necked rebellion against God and the reason for his judgments on the Jewish nation. There is a judgment side of Jesus and you are quite eligible.

    People have offered you love here and you’ve thrown it back in their faces. Then you whine that someone’s comments don’t show much love.

    My area of Christianity has taken a very strong stand for Israel for many years. President Bush is appreciated by most Christians in America, but his participation in encouraging Israel to give up the land of the West Bank rankles with us. We consider the biblical mandate of Israel’s territory from God as the settling issue on that and that part of the reason America has been blessed is because it has backed Israel. We do not like our country’s leaders pressuring Israel to give up the land for peace, a peace which never comes. Christians United for Israel has risen up from many televangelist ranks to take a stand.

    But there are two sides to the coin. The reason Jewish people are major contributors to the world, the most Nobel Prize winners, etc. is because of God, not because of them. There is a blessing to prosper on Jewish people. God does not revoke his calling and election once given. He has never given up on Israel, the Jewish people, even though over and over they have given up on him. Judgment has come on them over the years because of their idolatry and treachery against God.

    You are all over the lot, Black. Like the repeated changes in your avatar, your identity remains in flux. You whine about imagined Jewish persecution while you say “they” use the scripture to verify Israel’s borders. Are you in or out? There is no such ground as you claim for yourself. You are only existing under mercy. God’s tolerance last longer than people’s, but it is not exhaustible. There comes a time of reckoning.

  239. halcyon2 says:

    And – I’m sorry about your weak, religious image of Jesus and Christianity. Jesus is a street fighter. He brooks no hypocrisy, suffers neither fools nor whiners. Your problem is you qualify on all three counts.

  240. g9momma says:

    Listen….halcyon2 & prosperity777 ~

    Although you have made some very valid statements about BD ~ he does seem bitter and lonely. His website is – well what it is. But even though BD has resorted to name calling, child like bad manors and stereotyping…we should not be. The whole living above a deli getting his computer out of the dumpster…it’s just not cool. I don’t know if it is true and neither do you. I realize BD has been doing the very same thing with us…but come on – it is expected. Please be a bigger person about it. I know I’ve made some silly comments regarding teaching and worms, but most of that is by BD’s lips and I’ve just gone overboard in hopes to lighten things up and hopefully be able to get in some history & truth to break his defenses.

    Consider this you two…
    The entire time Jesus was under trial, beaten, and crucified…He prayed for the ones that did such horrible things to Him RIGHT TO THE END. People like BD usually in some way are unsatisfied with their lives and have a void they cannot fill. Perhaps he comes to websites trying to fill his time and fill that void? Perhaps he is just as I said lonely – and although he speaks of family…but they are far away? Maybe he is in a nursing home and nobody visits? There are dozes of “what if’s” that we cannot answer. But God can and IF we are sensitive to God and pray for BD (even if it is against his wishes) God will direct us exactly how to be and what to say.
    Perhaps BD came to this web page to fill that void…instead we’re throwing the mud right back at him. We have quoted scripture, claimed we christians walk in love, but what are we really doing here?

    I admit – (BD you’re going to enjoy this statment🙂 )
    BD has boiled my blood on a couple of occaisions…especially when he curses Jesus and God. I find that so very sad. He is a jew…one of God’s SPECIAL chosen. And yet ~ he denies Him…curses Him…ect. Even BD’s picture is from Dogma the movie…which even I find humorous; in that the simple ‘dig’s’ on christianity and old relgious Dogma that are made…unfortunately most of them true.
    God has given us humans everything, yet we spit upon the earth he has made, show hatred to each other, judge each other, wars, murder and in some cases do not even believe in Him. All this really grieves the Father to see. Many of us christians make our relationship with God a Sunday routine instead of an intimate relationship with our Father. BD is proving these points. WE need to be bigger than that and walk in love. I admit I’ve made many mistakes, shown bad manors in my past. Just because I love God DOES NOT MAKE ME (or us christians) perfect or better. I love God. So I strive to become more of the person He created me to be. That doesn’t make me better. In knowing Jesus – I’ve found a better understanding of love and peace and prosperity. If I follow God’s instruction manual I (or anyone else who does) have the promises of a better life.

    Perhaps that is exactly what BD needs???

    Nothing wrong with a sense of humor, just don’t be hurtful or hateful…we are supposed to be like Jesus with the skin on – right?

  241. halcyon2 says:

    “I have not been on any sports message boards. ”

    davidblack2

    May 12, 2008 3:36 PM
    Burwood/aus

    Gombrowitz and Critking

    Some say, cool down, walk in the park, enjoy life. I say, hahahahahahahahaha, SUFFER. United were the best side, and played the best football. Arsenal also played beautiful football, but erratically. Liverpool – sh*t on a stick. Chel$ki – sometimes brilliant, always determined. But this is a victory for beautiful football, flair, imagination. The fact that you can’t cope and succumb to vitriol and bitterness only adds to our delight. So thank you.
    [Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.]

  242. g9momma says:

    A little twang….
    ‘can’t we all just get along here….ya’ll?”
    🙂 LOL 🙂
    Lighten up everyone…laugh…it improves the value of your face (he-he).

  243. Black David says:

    Sorry, halcyon2, I am from New York and traditional New Yorkers don’t even think about a Eurotrash sport like soccer. We are a baseball town.

    I guess in your feeble inbred intellect all usernames davidblack2 must be the same person.

    Shouldn’t you be shoveling pig dung instead of spending time typing this gibberish about how Christians “care” so much for Israel? I for one am not impressed by these phony expressions of altruism.

    Israel doesn’t need your help, unless you are ready to send money to buy more weaponry to kill more Islamo-fascists.

  244. halcyon2 says:

    Typical and true to form – confronted with the facts – responds with abuse and personal attack – and lying is no problem for him. When confronted with substance, criticizes the format (i.e., spelling, grammar). Your next screen name should be “cut and paste.” The boredom is sufficient for me. Everyone enjoy the laughs.

  245. Black David says:

    No one asked for your “expressions of love, ” either. How presumptuous of you to think that such an offering would be accepted from strangers like you.

    Love comes from your family, not strangers.

    Jews made themselves great because of their inherent talents and intellect. A mythical being from a fairy tale book had nothing to do with it.

  246. g9momma says:

    LOL ~ BD it’s good to see you responded to me. I was hoping you would!

    Take into consideration…not all families are loving ones. Perhaps you are blessed to have a wonderful family. That is good, some do not have families, some do not have functional families, some have families that physically beat one another, some have families that steal from each other. You seem to be blessed in that regards.

    You would be surprised in how much love CAN come from strangers…I’m a stranger to you (and yes – I’m strange, but I am alright with that🙂 LOL ) – yet I still love you David Black. I love your persistance. You have conviction – perhaps misplaced, but there is also drive. You have the desire to see justice – there is nothing wrong with seeking justice. So I do see alot of good qualities in you. I may not agree with your opinions that you have stated time and again. But that’s alright. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and rarely do the masses agree with one another.

    I realize you did not ask for my expression of love, however, I still give it freely. Nobody asked for your hate, yet you still do nothing but HATE – everyone it seems. To my count…lets see…you hate God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, ‘practicing’ Jews, liberals, democrats, evangelicals, methodists, mormens, christians, presbyterians, baptists, soccer, Europe, anyone from the southern part of the United States, marines, hillbillies, muslims, anyone from middle east desent, koolade, snakes, yarmulkes (YES -I looked the word up in the dictionary…looks like you mispelled a word too BD HA-HA), praying, tithing, fiddler on the roof…humm – did I miss anything? Oh yea, any person that dosen’t have the very best english and grammer skills.🙂 WOW ~ that is a very long list of HATE David.

    * BUT YOU LOVE YOUR WORMS * LOL🙂
    Gosh, I can’t help BUT love your tanicity there BD…

  247. g9momma says:

    Alright BD…you did spell yarmulkes correct…my error I’m sorry BD. 😦 🙂

  248. Black David says:

    Mormens (sic) ?

    Can anyone truly be this stupid or is this just an act?

  249. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    I was wondering that about you.

    …so how long have you been a Muslim?

    …the good David

  250. g9momma says:

    “(sic)”?
    right back at ya buddy😉

    You are so silly David Black, I’ve written you nearly a book and a full day later the best you have for me is “mormens”? Too funny!

  251. Black David says:

    Hey Ellie Mae, because of your substandard public school education, you should read what this truly means:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic

    It’s far more useful knowledge than that gibberish about mythical beings “loving” you or me.

    Sorry, prosperity, I’m not a towel head. I don’t kneel on a silly little mat and pray to the east. I don’t subjugate women to subservient roles and I don’t have a problem with alcohol consumption.
    I also don’t believe that Israel and the United States are the “devil.”

  252. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    The Wikipedia is most unreliable source of information on the Internet.

    Merriam-Webster Online

    Main Entry:
    1 sic

    Pronunciation: \ˈsik\

    chiefly Scottish variant of such

    I still want to know what you think of those Christians whose deaths led to freeing Jews from Hitler’s Nazi concentration camps. So what do you think?

    See if you can find the misspelled word in this post or do you want another failing grade for not taking another test?

    …the good David

  253. Black David says:

    Funny that you are the judge of what is and what is not unreliable text, since you believe in the absolute veracity of a book of fairy tales.

    You didn’t even cite the proper definition of sic. It’s from Latin, you stupid dolt.

    I guess I can’t expect intellectual honesty from people who live in a fantasy world of magicians and spirits that talk.

    Join the real world, sparky.

    I know why you won’t post to my blog. You’re too cowardly to step outside your comfortable little collective here. You know you won’t get there the precious back up you so desperately need. No Jesus freaks (or Allah freaks as well) get a free pass on my blog.

  254. Black David says:

    “I still want to know what you think of those Christians whose deaths led to freeing Jews from Hitler’s Nazi concentration camps. So what do you think?”

    Obviously, they weren’t very effective, since six million still died.

  255. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    If our fallen Christian boys had known you before they enlisted, they would have probably just stayed home, Hitler would have won WWII and the Jews would have been exterminated, but the upside is that no one here would have met you.

    You are so full of fear that you even fear showing the sight sign of gratitude regardless of anyone has done for you.

    …the good David

  256. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Just as I thought. You are not the language whiz you purport yourself to be.

    You really need to get your head out of the Wikipedia and into the Word of God.

    As to way I don’t post in your blog, I don’t post in hell either, but maybe you should invest in a fireproof computer.

    You have to be older than 62 because no one could learn to be as nastry acting as you in just 62 years.

    …the good David

  257. Black David says:

    By the way, dumb ass, not every soldier in the Allied forces were Christians. Let me also remind you that the saintly FDR sat on his hands for years and did nothing to stop the persecution and murder of Jews until late into WW2.

  258. Black David says:

    Maybe you need to get your head out of your derriere instead, prosperity.

    Then you’d learn to live without believing in fairy tales.

  259. Black David says:

    The real reason you won’t post to my blog is because you are a coward, just admit it.

  260. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Black David,

    So the millions of our soldiers who were Christians mean nothing to you?

    I am no fan of FDR.

    Coward! Don’t make me come over there.

    Do you work for Grassley?

    …the good David

  261. Black David says:

    Yes, you are a coward who needs fellow holy rollers around him to feel empowered.

    If you’ve noticed, I don’t need any help to feel empowered. I don’t need a cheerleading section to sustain me. You do.

    I don’t work for any politician. However, I’ll back an elected official against some televangelist fraud anytime.

  262. g9momma says:

    Hey BD…I posted on your log.
    LOL🙂

    Geeze ~ is that all you can do?
    Correct grammer, spelling, and swear?
    You are not a very nice old man.
    You need to see a ‘shrink’ or something.
    Perhaps get on some ‘happy’ med’s could do you some service.
    Ha-ha🙂

  263. Black David says:

    Yo Momma: I complimented you on my blog, what the hell do you want?

  264. Black David says:

    Yo Momma: some conservative you are, recommending discredited junk science methods to someone.

  265. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    You are the only one who is afraid here. You are afraid of the truth. You are afraid to love. You are afraid to show gratitude. From what I can tell, there isn’t much you don’t fear. You are even afraid not to see yourself as worm food.

    This is because the spirit that is in you is of the chief coward, the devil.

    Jesus is your answer.

    …the good David

  266. prosperity7777 says:

    g0momma,

    Black David needs to see Doctor Jesus.

    …the good David

  267. Black David says:

    Afraid of what truth? Your version of the truth written up in a book of fairy tales? What a laugh riot you holy rollers are.

    I love my own family, that’s it.

    I show gratitude to someone that helps me personally or helps my family.

    You are afraid of the worm food outcome, not me. It makes you so fearful that you have to cling to fairy tales to paint a rosier picture of death.

    Stop lying, you phony. You’ve got your head up your derriere.

    Tell Dr. Jesus he should be sued for malpractice. He’s turned millions like you into intellectual pygmies.

  268. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    You can’t love your family in any meaningful way because you don’t have the love of God in you. You need to see Jesus about this.

    Why don’t you tell Jesus what ever you want to tell him, or have you already?

    If not for our Christian boys who served and died in WWII, you and your family may not even be here, but you show them no gratitude.

    God sacrificed His Son for you and your family, but you show Him no gratitude.

    Jesus died on the cross to provide you an opportunity to live with His Heavenly Father, but you show Him no gratitude.

    God Created Adam and Eve from whom you and you family descended, but you show Him no gratitude.

    People on this site have tried to be friendly to you and to help you, but you show them no gratitude.

    …the good Saint David

  269. Black David says:

    “Why don’t you tell Jesus what ever you want to tell him, or have you already?”

    OK, here goes … hey Jesus, take a hike. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out and stop dripping blood all over my floors. I’m not here to clean up after you.

    “If not for our Christian boys who served and died in WWII, you and your family may not even be here, but you show them no gratitude.”

    My uncles arrived here in 1938. Their relatives died in camps. Shows what you know.

    “People on this site have tried to be friendly to you and to help you, but you show them no gratitude.”

    That’s because you’re all phonies and frauds, You are not my friends and you are not my brothers. You offer help where none has been solicited. You just don’t know when to shut the hell up, even after you’ve been told that your beliefs are as full of holes as pieces of swiss cheese.

  270. Black David says:

    CORRECTION: My father and uncles arrived in 1938 after kristallnacht.

  271. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    …not the sharpest pencil in the box are you?

    So what! If Hitler won WWII, then America would not be here in it’s present form. We would all be speaking German and your relatives would have been put to death. Consequently, you would never have been born.

    Is it so hard for you to say think you for the people who died so you can live in freedom?

    …the good David

  272. Black David says:

    No one died in the effort to bring my father and uncles over year prior to WW2. if anything, they had to pay a network of people lots of money to escape and arrive to these shores.

    “So what! If Hitler won WWII, then America would not be here in it’s present form. We would all be speaking German and your relatives would have been put to death. Consequently, you would never have been born.”

    Right, I wouldn’t have been born, so what?

  273. Black David says:

    CORRECTION: No one died in the effort to bring my father and uncles over here prior to WW2.

    When you acknowledge that it wasn’t only “Christians” like you that enlisted in the combined Allied forces that fought the Axis powers during WW2 then I may throw you a bone.

  274. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    The “so what” is that God has provided you with an opportunity to accept eternal life with Him, in Christ Jesus.

    I never said that Christians were the only participants in WWII, but this blog is filled with Christians and then there is you , who as a secular Jew, has no apparent appreciation for us.

    …the good David

  275. David Black says:

    “but this blog is filled with Christians and then there is you , who as a secular Jew, has no apparent appreciation for us.”

    Gee whiz, what a shame. I guess you aren’t as special as you may seem to think you are. Strip away your scripture, your mythical beings, all that hocus pocus you believe in, and you are just another future source of worm food.

    So suck on that, sparky.

  276. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David

    Are you aware that you just said noting? LOL

    …the good David

  277. trekker2 says:

    His standard M.O.

  278. David Black says:

    Are you aware that you just said noting?

    Did I say “noting”?

  279. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    You said nothing. …no change.

    …the good David

  280. David Black says:

    And when have you said anything that isn’t straight out of the jesus freak playbook?

  281. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    Thanik you for noticing. So, you read the Bible?

    …the good David

  282. David Black says:

    I once read The Cat in the Hat, does that count?

  283. prosperity7777 says:

    Black David,

    I think you have read at least part of the Bible.

    …the good David

  284. g9momma says:

    Hi DB….I still love ya & pray’en for ya daily.
    I know you don’t like people not using ‘proper’ english.
    I’m good with it though….love ya anyway and I’m sure you will be correcting my grammer…I’m alright with that too, I use “ya” all the time.🙂

    Thank you for checking out my comment on you’re blog.
    I am really surprised you agreed with me though.
    LOL🙂

  285. […] waging a Holy War.” This one line pretty much sums up theideology of most preachers such as Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts, Graham Junior (Billy Graham’s son). Benny Hinn who was recently […]

  286. jwinthrop says:

    Wall Street bigshots making millions, TV hosts making milllions. And they are upset over Joyce Meyer’s $250,000 a year salary. Please. Get your own house in order Senators.

  287. David Black says:

    Joyce Meyers didn’t earn that money because she didn’t truly work for it.

    Scamming people into believing there’s a mythical afterlife awaiting them if they pay $20 dollars to their “ministry” is NOT work.

  288. Glen Woodfin says:

    I’m in complete agreement with your comparison and contrast with Nancy Pelosi’s demand to get a bigger jet so she can fly everywhere nonstop.

    Actually, I’d be fine with the jet if she’d never land. We’d save more taxpayer dollars if we just keep her in the air.

  289. jungle gym says:

    treehouses…

    […]Kenneth Copeland’s Jet « Doug Wead The Blog[…]…

  290. Janet Salerno says:

    At this point in time I trust the Copelands. As far as all this outrageous attacks I feel confident there is a lot of misunderstanding involved. Pray who to give money too if not sure. If the Copelands are not a faithful to their flock God will not hold you responsible, He will honor your giving if you are in faith. We cannot know everything that goes on between a very large ministry and out lives. Again, God is our leader and He is the one to trust in all things. We mist always discern who we let teach and lead us. Let God be God, He knows what is going on.

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